Adventure Travel with Gilly Gwilliams - Retreats In Greece

Guest Bio

Gilly Gwilliams is the founder of Retreats In Greece, a travel agency focused on wellness retreats throughout the country. After a career in the British Army as an intelligence analyst, Gilly relocated to the island of Kos where she transitioned into fitness and Pilates instruction. Combining her love of holistic health with her deep connection to Greece, she created a platform that offers carefully matched retreats emphasizing healing, fitness, and personal growth. Her work also supports other retreat hosts by helping them connect with travelers seeking meaningful wellness experiences.

Show Summary

In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Gilly about her journey from a military career to founding a specialized retreat travel service in Greece. They explore how Gilly’s early experiences, including her time as a fitness instructor on Kos, led her to create Retreats In Greece—an agency that curates a wide range of wellness retreats beyond the usual yoga and fitness options.

The conversation delves into the unique qualities that make retreats different from typical vacations, such as their focus on healing and providing tools for long-term well-being. Gilly shares insights into the diversity of retreats offered, including a mythology-based healing retreat that uses the story of the Minotaur to help participants process trauma. She also discusses the challenges and rewards of building her business, the importance of personalized retreat matching, and how her own health journey influenced her approach to fitness and wellness.

Listeners gain an understanding of the practical steps involved in booking a retreat through her agency and the supportive community she has cultivated among hosts and travelers alike. Gilly’s story reflects a thoughtful evolution from military discipline to nurturing wellness and connection in a place she describes as deeply healing.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 1:04

Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back here today and super excited to have my guest. Today we've got Jillie Williams. She is the founder of Retreats in Greece. Jilly, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here. Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. I I do want to touch on your name because when I say it, I don't know if people hear it or if they they see it in the show notes. But your last name is Gwilliams. And you were telling me before I hit the record button that it's it is popular in some places. I had not come across it before. But tell us a little bit about your last name.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

So my name originates from Wales. I am not from Wales. I am actually from the north of England, but we do have Welsh heritage. But a lot of people of the Williams name did emigrate to Canada, I don't know, about 50, 60 years ago. So I seem to see their name pop up in Canada more often than I do actually in the British Isles. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Okay. Do you think or have you? I'm just curious, because sometimes names morph. Is that the original version of Williams? Do you think? They dropped the G to make it easier for some people?

SPEAKER_00 2:17

So it's the Welsh language. Maybe Williams was the original, and in Wales they put the G in front. So it could have gone either way. Because in Welsh, I don't know if you're very familiar with the Welsh. No, not at all. There's a lot of gwet sounds in Welsh.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

It could be that the evolution of the Welsh language. It could have gone either way.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Very cool. Well, I learned something new every day. And we're we're so just starting the conversation. I've already learned something. So, Julie, thank you so much for that. And the other thing we discussed before I hit the record button was you'd mentioned your I'm not used to being on this side of the conversation because I just happen to know that you've got a podcast as well. So before we get into your story and all the other amazing things you're doing, let's let's share that with our listeners. Uh so if right off the bat they know they want to hear your voice more, they'll go look that up. But don't leave down. Don't wait till the end of the episode and then go check it out. We'll have uh we'll have some information in the show notes later. So, Julie, what's uh tell us about your podcast?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

So my podcast is called the Evexia Effect. So Evexia actually means wellness in Greek, it's an ancient Greek word. And my company that I originally started here when I moved to Greece is called Evexia because we do everything about wellness. So when I decided to do a podcast, I was trying to think of what the best name it would be because we're talking about everything in Greece, we're located in Greece, and we're talking about everything wellness. So that's how the name came about, the Avexia effect. So all our episodes are to do with people that are either Greek or doing something in Greece to do with wellness, whether that's breath of work, nutrition, fitness, all different types of things, yoga, anything that can be incorporated into the wellness world, we talk about it on our podcast in order to try and help people if we can.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Very cool. What's your favorite part of podcasting?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Learning. Honestly, that is the best part. So every podcast, I learn something new, and something, and things that I can incorporate into my own life as well. One particular podcast was about nutrition and healing the gut. And some of the things that we spoke about in that podcast, I now do in my everyday life. It's great. I just love the learning.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Me, me too. And I would say the same, including learning a little bit about the Welsh language. So thank it, there's always something. So it's uh it's very cool. Let's and so now let's get into retreats in Greece. What is that all about? Let's give our listeners kind of uh, you know, the I don't know, we can go 60 seconds, six minutes, whatever, just to help them get a feel for what you do, and then we're gonna dig back in time and figure out why you do it.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Okay, great. So retreats in Greece is exactly what it says on the packet, okay? We're a travel agency that sells retreats in Greece, okay? But those retreats can be anything. So you can have your standard yoga retreats, but they can also be something more meaningful and in-depth. Of course, it's everything in Greece, but there's more to Greece than the Greek islands. So they can be happening anywhere in Greece, any time of the year, not just in summer. So that is the the concept or the main concept of retreats in Greece.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Makes makes sense. I'm just gonna ask you the word retreats. You've given this a lot more thought than I have. And for retreats might be really obvious to some people, but what is a retreat? How is a retreat different than just a trip? And uh help our listeners kind of get their head around that, or help me get my head around that.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

So a retreat is something that's meaningful to that person. It's something a lot of people that go on a retreat, per se, is somebody that they're looking to be able to heal themselves, they're looking to be able to escape from the rest of the world. Maybe they're stressed in their life. And your standard beach holiday is great, but it doesn't give you the tools to actually fix the problem. Most retreats will give you the tools to fix what's actually going on. So maybe you're overwhelmed or overworked or burnt out. Yes, you can go away for a holiday for two weeks, you feel great for two weeks, but when you go home, you go back into the same old situation that you were in before. Whereas a retreat should allow you to learn how to not let that problem happen again. But it's every retreat is different, and every retreat offers something different. So you've just got to think of it. With retreats in Greece, for example, we match you up to the right retreat for you. So we don't, we're not a booking site. So people come to us and tell us what they're feeling, and we will say, Well, this is how you're feeling, this is how you want to feel, this is the right retreat that's gonna hopefully help you on your journey.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Okay, very cool. And to kind of compare that to a traditional uh tour operator, agent, that type of thing, are these retreats that we I'd call them a group trip that people can book into, just in my in my vocabulary. Or, but then there's the customized kind of private itineraries. So is a retreat always kind of a group trip that's already set up and you book spots into it, or can a couple call you and you can book a private retreat just for the two of them with what does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 7:42

So both options are available. Okay. A lot of retreats are group activities and they can range from two to 10 to 20 people. The smaller retreats are generally your better retreats, the more intimate ones, but we do also offer the solo options. So we do have hosts in Greece that are willing to tailor make a retreat suitable to the person that's coming. For example, we have a great retreat center in Galaxidi, which is in the mainland of Greece. It's a solo retreat, and our host will speak to the guest, see what the guest is looking for, and tailor make that to them, whether they want to come on their own, come with their friends, or come with their partner. And then we have your group retreats where you can just come along and join. And a lot of people, when they go on retreats, they want to meet other people as well. So it's a great opportunity for solo travelers, for solo travelers to come away and be in a group, not be alone, meet other people as well. So that gives you two options there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Okay, very cool. So it's there's a lot of parallel to kind of the traditional group trips, uh, what we call FITs or individual bespoke or whatever you want to call that. I would love to, I heard you say kind of a lot of different things, the you know, different things that people can address, the different types of retreats. Um, I'd love for you to share one with us, maybe that's just a little bit different that most people wouldn't even would maybe is there one that people would say, oh wow, I had no idea that they even did stuff like that. Or are there some on your radar that you think would just maybe surprise some of our listeners?

SPEAKER_00 9:16

To be honest. To be honest, that we we offer our standard yoga retreat, but a lot of our retreats are something very different and very unique. Like I said, the one in Galaxy, the the group trip at the moment, which I actually had the pleasure to join earlier in the year, it's attached to Greek mythology. So they use the stories of Greek mythology to help you understand your traumas and move on from your traumas in life, which is really fascinating. And they're using the story of the Minotaur in Crete. I don't know if you're aware of Greek mythology.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

A little bit, but tell us, tell us the Minotaur.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Yeah, so the whole story is how the Minotaur, his story of the Minotaur, how he was captured and kept in the labyrinth, basically, how he was born, why he was there, and the whole process for the entire it's four to five days. This retreat, you go through the journey of this mythological story, and it allows you to deal with your traumas in your head and deal with issues. And one of the best parts of this retreat, which I it was absolutely incredible, it was like a it was a reading that they did, and um but they did it to music, and it was a very intimate situation, but this was the story from the minotaur's point of view rather than the people and the gods point of view, and it totally changed your w way you thought about things because you're looking at it from a different perspective, and it was in I don't want to say so much about it because I think you have to be there to really experience it, but it allows your brain to think completely differently rather than a one-track situation, which a lot of us are in, and we're stuck in our own minds a lot of the time, and we can't get out. And this is a lot of the reason why we need retreats or therapy or something. It allows us to come out of our minds, and this take teaches you to do things from a different perspective and to see things from another way around. And it was really fascinating. So this is a really unique, but very true to Greece, okay? And this is what I really like is that the fact that it's so true to Greece and it's an ancient past and the ancient healings, and you visit Delphi, which is one of the most healing sites in Greece, it's a really fascinating retreat. But then you've got other retreats which are about couples coming together, and maybe they've had problems in their sexual relationship, etc. And they come together and deal with that situation. So there's lots of different things that we have on offer, and there's something for everybody. There's definitely something for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

All right. So it's it's not just yoga, not that I would not that I was suggesting that it was, but I think yoga is the one that people immediately go to. Yoga retreats. I've had a guest on the show that does yoga and surf retreats, which is pretty cool. And uh, but yeah, there's a wide variety. I love what you were saying about using the story of the Minotaur to, did I say minot minotaur? That's how I would say it. Is that yeah?

SPEAKER_00 12:34

I think every nationality pronounces it differently.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Don't don't we all? But I I love using stories like that to help people connect with their own story because sometimes we're so guarded and so unaware of some things. And I remember I went to some sort of workshop and the gentleman was describing how if I bring someone in and work with them to share their story, people in the in the audience or the people that are listening are are going to be able to connect to their own elements in their own life that they might not otherwise connect with. And it was just about, you know, outside stories sometimes help us reflect on, oh wait, I I've you mean I'm not the only one that has that thought in my head or or whatever. And also I remember someone had said something. I I think the quote was, I read so that I know I'm not alone in the world or something. So that's about kind of hearing other people's stories as well. So that's very cool. Okay, we got to figure out how the heck you got into this. Because it didn't, it didn't just happen. I don't I don't think you went from northern UK to Greece and started running uh doing retreat stuff. So let's go back to let's go back to your childhood. We can unlock some of your trauma so anybody listening can can feel like they're not alone in the world. So Jelly, tell us about you growing up in northern, you said in the northern UK, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yes, so I'm from Leeds, which is in Yorkshire, and which is like middle north of the UK.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

So Alright. What was that like?

SPEAKER_00 13:59

So I had a fantastic childhood from being up to a teenager. We had a normal childhood, quite free-spirited, I'm a very free-spirited person, playing out on the streets, etc. Nothing like children grow up now, I don't think. Yes, yeah. We didn't have the computer world. Maybe we had like a place, the first PlayStation, but it literally just stayed there when we maybe played on it in a rainy day. But I was, I will 100% say I was a bit of a tomboy. So I was always out playing sports, rugby, football, climbing trees, riding bikes. You never really saw me in the house. So I was a very adventurous um kid.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

And then you have I remember when I was young. I'm a little older than you, so it's even more different back then. But it was kind of, you know, you'd hear things like, okay, well, you knew you had to be home when the streetlights went on.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Or there was some sort of like because you because your parents couldn't just text you or use your location on your phone to figure out where you're at. You were just out and about. So what kind of do you remember what kind of like what the trigger was? Okay, I know I need to go home and eat, or did your mom just yell out the front porch out the door, or what was that?

SPEAKER_00 15:06

My mum used to yell.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 15:10

So it depended on how old we were, depended on how far we were allowed down the street. So I think when we were really young, it's like you had to be between the two lampposts. So my mum could see us all.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Two lampposts. And then as we got older, we could go to the end of the streets, then we could go around the block. But my mum. I remember, yeah. It was very adventurous when we could go around the block. We felt so grown up.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

It's it's so funny because because now if if if a parent, you know, father, mother, whatever went out on the front doorstep and just started yelling for their kids, people think they're crazy. They're like, what is wrong with that person? What are they doing? Can't you just text? Yeah, so it's it's changed a bit. Do you did you have siblings growing up?

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Yes, I've got two older sisters, very different to me. So my eldest sister's actually nine years older than me. So she was a bit more mothery rather than sibling-y. But my other sister is who we're incredibly close now, is uh two years older than me, but we have very, very different personalities. She is your stay-at-home, read a book kind of girl, and I'm your go-out. She never played out on the streets, or very rarely. She was inside with her book. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Okay. And where do you was this just kind of normal? What did you, if you reflect back, you're like, yeah, I was other than the tomboy part, I like to be out playing sports, doing all this stuff. Was that pretty normal for the neighborhood? I mean, do you remember other people that were like you, or did you always did you feel like you were kind of a little bit different? Because they didn't all move to Greece.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

When I was a kid, I would say like the majority of my friends were boys. So it didn't really matter that I was a tomboy. Um, I had some girlfriends as well, but I don't know. I never felt like I didn't fit in when I was a child. It's when I became a teenager that I felt like I never fit in. That was, but I think that happens to everybody. I think looking back now as an adult, you look back to your teenagers, it wasn't just me that felt like I didn't fit in. I think everybody feels like that.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Yeah. Even even the ones that, you know, if if I reflect back to think of the the kids that seemed like they fit in. I think if I had a conversation with right now, with them right now, they'd be like, yeah, I never fit in. I'm like, what are you talking about? Everybody, you know, you were captain of the football team or whatever. And they're like, they're like, yeah, but it man, the pressure, the this, the that, and just I only did that because I wanted to fit in, or that, that type of thing. What uh what about your parents? Did they grow up? Were they born and raised in that area, or what was their background?

SPEAKER_00 17:44

So my family were all from the same area. My mum, the so basically the house that we grew up in, my grandma lived around the corner, and then et cetera. My mum was born on the street along the way. Everybody lived in the same area and grew up in the same area. We all went to the same schools, etc. So it was unusual for somebody like me to come along and say, I don't want to live here. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

What about do your sisters still live in that area?

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Well, surprisingly, my eldest sister lives in the same house I was born in.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

And um my I don't know if it's a surprise based on what you were just telling me.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Yeah, and my other sister, she has moved away from the area, but I do think she will move back eventually. I think she's only moved away because of her husband. So, but I think she does miss the area.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Would you ever move back?

SPEAKER_00 18:37

My intentions of ever moving back to the UK at all.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Wow. All right, let's talk about your teenagers. I want to connect the dots because you seem very, very firm on that. When you were in, you know, I don't know, high school, secondary school, whatever you, whatever you called it there when you were a teenager. What what was going on? I was like, what did you think you were gonna do when you were finished with school? What was what was your life like as a teenager?

SPEAKER_00 19:01

So when I was a teenager, I was I don't you do have the same where you're from. Um we I was an air cadet and air force cadet.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

So my teenage years was literally being a cadet and going to join the military. So my whole life revolved around going to join the military. And also during my teenage years, my parents separated as well. So it was quite a turbulent time, but the military aspect to it always gave me some kind of structure, and at the time in my life, I liked structure. Okay, it was really good, and you got to do amazing things. Somebody with my personality, I would go away on summer camp, we would go flying, we would do shooting, we'd go camping, hiking, all that kind of stuff. It was literally my world. If somebody was asking me what I was doing on the weekend, I was doing something like that.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

So I'm curious, I'm curious about that, because I joined the military at a not relatively young age, as most people do. And my motivation was go see the world. It was at the time, it was not like I want structure. It was I just want to go see the world. So you mentioned structure, you mentioned activities, but if they had said to you, okay, when you're finished with your cadet training, we're going to station you in Leeds and you're gonna do 20 years in Leeds. So like I'm trying to figure out how much mo how much of the motivation was to go see the world.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

It is mostly to see the world. Like in me, I always wanted to leave.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

So as soon as I because I eventually did join the army, that's what I did. I joined the army. Um my first posting was to Germany. So I left and I requested to be posted away. That was my choice. And every option that I had to go somewhere, I was volunteering to go somewhere else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Okay. I think I wouldn't be doing a good job if I didn't ask why the heck did you want to get out of Leeds so bad? Was it just be just the desire just to go see things that's pervaded through your life, or was there something about Leeds you really did not want to be?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

To be honest, there's nothing particularly wrong with Leeds and the home. I lived life on the countryside. It was an amazing place. I'm just have this desire to see places and experience places, experience cultures. I think the best education in life is experiencing other people's cultures. You do not learn as much from a textbook as what you do from the actual experience of being somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Yeah, I I agree. And I suspect most of the people listening to this conversation right now can relate to that as well. So it makes sense that you're doing what you do. What it How old were you when you joined the Army?

SPEAKER_00 21:42

I was 22 when I joined the Army. So there was a little bit of a gap from leaving school to actually joining. I tried to join when I was younger and I didn't pass all the tests at the time. So eventually I was actually 29, did join. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

What were you what were you doing in the meantime, other than maybe preparing and that type of thing? What was going on? Like from when you finished school until you went and joined the army.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

You don't have to tell us all the details, but I just want to get a feel for it.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

I never felt settled. Okay. So I jumped from job to job. I worked in a supermarket, I worked in an office, and then eventually I worked for a bank. And I worked for a bank for a good few years. And I think that was the breaking point. Like, get me out of here. I need to really pursue this military career to see where it goes.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Yeah, banking generally probably doesn't fulfill those desires for novelty and and uh experiences and spontaneity and and stuff like that. I get that. All right. We won't go too deep into that. What did you, when you signed up for the army, was it one of those things where you just were gonna do whatever they told you you needed to do, or were you able to choose a specialty, or what was it? Was there something particular you did?

SPEAKER_00 22:55

The process for joining the British Army is that you do a variety of tests and then they tell you what you'd be suited to. So I thought I'd go and be a mechanic or something like that. My dad was a mechanic, so I thought I'll go and be a mechanic. Okay. That's what I liked. I liked engineering, I liked the thinking, that kind of thing, and I liked doing things. But when I went and did the test, they said, you can go and join the intelligence. So I ended up joining intelligence. Yeah. So I was an intelligence analyst for seven years.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Seven years. So how did that the job itself? Was that stimulating enough for you? Or what was that like? Because I think of analysts being spending a lot of time looking at numbers and things. I don't know. And maybe you can't tell us all of it, but we are.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

So you've got to use your brain. But it it's also the one job in the British Army that gets you posted to different places. So whilst I was in the army, I went to Germany. We lived on the Dutch border. I went to Afghanistan. I went to Nigeria. I went to Cyprus. I went to many different places thanks to my job. Every six months I was somewhere else. So yes, your main job is sat on the computer doing a lot of analytical work. And it takes a lot of brain power. It's quite a stressful job, but it's the one job that will get you to everywhere in the world.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

All right. Very cool. And when you were doing that, did you was there a place that you went and you said, Oh yeah, when I am finished with the military, this is where I'm going to live? Or were you ready to settle down at that point? I mean, I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

So Greece was where I was going to move, but Greece is somewhere where my family always holidayed. So it has no relevance to the military at all. So when I was like done with the military, stressed, etc., I had a few health issues during the time and I needed to leave really for my own health and sanity.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

I had like this thing. What am I going to do with myself? I had no idea what I was going to do. So I was a fitness instructor, personal trainer. I'd done all this training and it was an impulse decision, really. I was like, I'm just going to go to Greece. I'm going to go to COSS, which is where I live. This is where we've always come on holiday. This is somewhere that felt familiar to me. It didn't feel daunting or new or anything like that, but it was somewhere, it was still a new adventure. So I came to COFS as a fitness instructor in a hotel. And that's when this life began, basically.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Wow. Was it easy for you to do that as part of the EU, I guess? And probably, I don't know. Was it easy for you to go there and get a job doing that at a hotel?

SPEAKER_00 25:33

At the time, yes. Before Brexit happened, you could easily just come to Greece and just do a job at work. It was really easy to do. You just found yourself a job, got on a plane and came. Really, really easy. And it's not so easy for people to do that now. They can't do that as a British person.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Yeah, when Brexit happened, did that you were already there, you were working. Did that create a situation for you where all of a sudden you weren't? Or did you already how did that work?

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Because I'd moved here before and I'd become a resident before You'd become a resident, okay. There's a situation where if you were a resident before Brexit happened, you're still entitled to all the previous rights that we had before. So it's not affected me in any way, shape, or form. I've just lived my life and difference.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Did you did you enjoy that new opportunity immediately? Like, okay, I'm finished with the military. Here I am. Did you did it feel like yes, I'm home, this is where I belong, or were you just kind of okay?

SPEAKER_00 26:32

There was something there's something about Greece, and there's something for me about cost that is healing. And I needed that environment where I needed to heal. I'd suffered from depression, mainly because I had an autoimmune disease that I didn't know about, but I needed somewhere that made me feel relaxed. The UK has never made me feel relaxed.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

But Greece always had done. And I think a lot of people that come to Greece, for whatever reason, they will feel this connection to the land. Um, and so every day I wake up now. I'm not perfect every day, but I feel wake up feeling the gratitude, grateful for where I live. It's an amazing place. I live two minutes from the sea, two minutes from a golden beach. I work on the beach. Um right now I have my own business. To start with, I worked for somebody, but it was still amazing. It was still an incredible feeling to work in the I think it was a childhood dream coming here to live here without really knowing because I'd always been like dead set on joining the military that I'd never really thought moving to Greece was a serious prospect. But then when I've got here, it just feels so natural to be here.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

I hear you, and I sense that you're the person that it's very a feeling like this feels like the right place. I heard you say it that a minute a few times. But I'm curious, are you able to put your finger on you mentioned you're close to the ocean, you've got the beach, you've got just you seem very, very happy.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Are you able to put your finger on what it is for you that Greece brings to you, or is it just to me there's I can't put my finger on anything, it is just the feeling, and I think people do just have that feeling, and I think it's a lot of things combined, to be perfectly honest. I do think it's a lot of things combined, not just one thing. It's the lifestyle, it's the people, it's the environment. Um, there's a lot of things wrong with Greece as well. I can't live it in Greece, it's not the easiest place to live with the economy and the bureaucracy and things like that. But everything else just makes up for it. And for me, like the islands, I live on an island and the islands shut down in winter, and everybody's like, oh, how can you live on the islands? But for me, I think that's something that's important. That for that six months of the year, it's not hectic, it's not crazy, it's really peaceful.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Do you think that I suspect it played a role? I don't know, but do you think that you know you did your time, you did seven years in the military, and you felt like you needed to, you know, recover on some some things. And and if you'd gone somewhere else, do you think you would have had that, okay, the military's behind me, so I just feel better because the military's behind me? So maybe you fall in love. Because sometimes people fall in love with a place because maybe they leave a bad relationship, they leave a bad job, and they go someplace and they're so happy to have change in their life. They just fell in they just fall in love with wherever they are. I'm not suggesting that's the case, but I'm curious if you think that was part of it. Have you considered that?

SPEAKER_00 29:45

To be honest, I've never considered that, but I think the connection to Greece happened as a child.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Yeah, that's what you said. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

I think that's the connection that I came here already knowing it felt like a safe place. Because when I'd come on holiday as a child or as a young adult, I always felt like relaxed and calm. And even like when I was in the military, I used to still come on holiday here, and it was an escape from my hectic life. And it just I think it's more to do with that connection than it is to do with escape from the military. Although I was very happy to put the military behind me, even though it was like a career that I wanted, it was a career that I also exhausted. So by the time I got here, I was ready to do my own thing. I was ready to be my own person.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Very, very cool. Did you was it obviously, obviously, just from the sound of what you're saying, you felt very comfortable right off the bat. It sounds like it. There's some challenges. What about making friends, connecting? Was it was it easy for you? You're pretty friendly, outgoing person. So I'm just curious, was were there cultural challenges to make friends, or what was that like?

SPEAKER_00 30:58

I already had friends before I came here, so I already knew people. So I had that small network of people. And because of the job I do, so my everyday life, forget about the retreats in Greece, my everyday life on courses. I teach Pilates, I do fitness. So I meet people daily. And whether that's the Greek community or the expat community, I meet the most amazing people on a daily basis. And those people are the people that have become my close friends. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Did you, when you first got there, did you did you think that the training and the wellness stuff would be what you would continue to do? Or was it, I want to be in costs and this is the the skill set I have right now, and I can get a job and I'll figure it out later? Or did you kind of already know that this was gonna be a common thread?

SPEAKER_00 31:47

This is what I was gonna do. I think this is what I was naturally good at, this is what I enjoyed, and this is it's what I want to help people. So, my whole goal in my life, now after my like stresses, etc., I want to help as many people as I can. So what I started off doing was like military-style fitness, and I've evolved as a person. So I'm still doing fitness, wellness, etc., but in a different way because how I've evolved. But my ultimate goal in life is just to help as many people and make as many people feel good as possible now.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Because I don't want them to feel how I felt in the past. So it's just it is the most natural step for me to do what I'm doing. And it would be crazy for me not to do this.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Tell me more about the military style training, because I've seen some of that where you know you've got it's like a boot camp thing, and you've got people that dress up like they're in the military and they yell at you and they you make you do push-ups and all that stuff. Was it like that? Because it's hard for me to imagine you doing that. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Very much so. At the end of the day, in the military, you're training for a purpose, you're training for a reason. You're not training for your health, you're training to essentially go to war. That is what you're training for. So your level of fitness needs to be at a really high standard. But that also isn't necessarily what I've learned now, is not necessarily good for you as a person to train that hard.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Not everybody needs, you do not need to train that hard. To be healthy, you just need to move and exercise, lift some weights. You don't need to overdo it. For me personally, I have this autoimmune disease called Hashimoto's. Military training is literally the worst type of training I can do for my body. And I've learned this afterwards. Okay. You learned it the hard way. Yeah. Creates my symptoms, makes my symptoms even worse. And there's a lot of people, especially women, for example, perimenopause, menopausal, they don't need to be doing these hard workouts. They think we've been told for years, if you want to lose weight, you need to really beast yourself, really work as hard as you can. But that's not actually true. So if you want to lose weight, we need to lift weights. We need to metabolize our body better. So it's you've got to think of it as a better way of working out rather than really doing the military workout. If you enjoy that thing, if you like training like that, fine, train like that. We've got to do what we enjoy at the end of the day. But how many people really like to be dying at the end of a workout? I don't think they do.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Well, you know, you you bring up a really good point that I had never considered before, but anybody that's been in the military, especially maybe the army. I'm gonna say maybe especially the army. I don't know. I've I was in the army, so I'm a little so in my mind, I think maybe the Air Force doesn't train quite as hard as maybe sometimes you do in the army. But where I'm going with this is, you know, you take a I was in the infantry, so I was mostly around young men, and you take the cross section, and at any given time, you've got a you know, a group of people that are limping around and walking on crutches and and have shin splints and have all these physical things that these ailments, like at a much larger rate than you see in the in the the population. And you gotta think, yeah, is this really good? I mean, it's so many of them end up getting out for over-training injuries and stuff like that. So yeah, I never thought about that, but it makes sense. It's it's not uh necessarily about making people healthy.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

No, it's uh you're training for a purpose. People are getting I've got a I dislocated my shoulder whilst in the army. I still have a problem now with my shoulder. You're training for a purpose and you're pushed to your limits, and you're pushed to your limits for a reason. And it's it is an acceptable way, but it just doesn't mean that we need to train like that in the civilian world. There's no need for it. It's not gonna make you healthier, it's gonna break you.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

You know, it's maybe a good example of that is uh, you know, I was in the the airborne, so I was a paratrooper, and the parachutes you jump with are designed to get you to the ground as quickly as possible with a certain level of expected casual, you know, a certain casualty rate, because they know they got to get you to the ground quick because when you're in the air, you're a target. But you also hit the ground really hard, you know, and so it's like if you were gonna decide, okay, I want to get into parachuting, if you're smart, you don't go get a military parachute because you're not gonna be able to do it for very long because you hit the ground so damn hard. So when you say there's a reason, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's what's best for you overall in the long run, especially if you don't have to worry about getting shot at, I guess. Exactly. So all right. So how long did you how long did you do the kind of military style training before you? It sounds like you shifted gears because you realized it wasn't a great fit for most people, or did you just adjust the way you did it?

SPEAKER_00 36:46

So after I came out of the military and I started to learn, like you said, I like learning. So I started researching, I started looking at things for myself. I learned about my own autoimmune disease, what works for me, etc. And I was working a lot with women. Being a woman, I was working a lot with women, started to understand what they do, like hormonal issues, women are complicated to work with when it comes to fitness. So I just educated myself and the shift happened pretty quickly, really. And I started to teach Pilates as well, which to me is the most amazing thing anybody could ever do is Pilates. And that really changed my mindset as well, because that actually allowed me to slow down. That taught me that you can like work hard, but in a really controlled way and get amazing results. You don't have to be working hard, like fast. You have to just be doing things correctly. And that was a huge learning curve when I started to teach Pilates, and I still teach Pilates to this day. I think it's literally every person on the earth should do Pilates to some level. It doesn't change people's lives, really does.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

You know what? I think there's enough people that kind of are aware of Pilates. Yes, now they've never done it. But they but a lot of them have never done it, and it kind of looks intimidating, I'm gonna say, even as a former infantry paratrooper, I go by a Pilates studio and there's these tables, and and I'm like, what is going on in there? And maybe it's maybe the intimidation part is it just looks like I don't know what I'm doing. I feel weird ask walking in there and asking questions. So, what should people know that have walked by a Pilates studio or and and want to go in but have that intimidation? What what do you say?

SPEAKER_00 38:31

If you've got a good Pilates instructor, it's they will make the session and it's accessible to everybody, no matter what level you're at. It doesn't matter whether you've never even exercised before, never been for a walk more than 500 meters, for example. Pilates are accessible to every level, and we can ch we can adjust everything to suit every single person. I personally don't teach much reformer Pilates, which is the beds you're talking about. I do a lot of the matte Pilates. I'm still with the traditional beds, which is great, which I think is less intimidating and more open to people. And I recommend that you don't need a reformer to do a good Pilates class. A reformer was created to help people that were struggling with the other exercises. You can do everything on the map. You don't need to be intimidated by it because you can be a complete beginner and still have a fantastic class, and you can be an absolute advanced person and still get an amazing class. It's it's open to everybody. I have beginners all the time. In summer, I teach tourists. I have tourists come to the beach to do Pilates, and a lot of them say I've never done Pilates. But I was like, don't worry. It's all about just listening to your body and listening to what your body can do, comparing yourself to the person next to you, to what you can personally do. And what you can do today will be different to what you can do in three months' time. Progression.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

So it sounds, it sounds like what you're saying is you can have a class with beginners and people that have been doing it for a long time, all in one class, and everybody can get something out of it.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Yeah, you can do. If your instructor's good enough to manage the class, definitely. Because every c every exercise in Pilates has levels. So there's a basic level and there's an advanced advanced level. So Pilates is based around a set core of exercises, and there's different variations to each exercise.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Okay. Okay. So is but is it more common to have different? Would you have like we're doing a beginner's class at nine and then at 10 we're doing the advanced classes, or is it usually mixed together? What's help me understand that?

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Each studio is different. It depends how busy the studio is, really.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

So it will depend on that. For me, my beach classes are all abilities. I teach all abilities classes. That's how my program works. But for example, during COVID when I was doing things online, I had an advanced class every day. We did an advanced class. It all depends on the area that you're in, how popular the studio is.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

You you made it clear that you don't do the reformer Pilates. But I'm like that word just sounds like a torture device. I mean, it kind of looks like it. Am I the only one that thinks reformers like we're gonna we're gonna punish you until you get it right, until you align with everybody else? Or do you know where that why they chose that word? Am I is it just me that thinks that?

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Pilates isn't originally called Pilates. Pilates is the name of the person that created it, Joe Pilates. Um the actual exercise itself was originally called Contrology, which is movement reformer.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

That's a little bit like torture too, but okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Yeah, so the history of Pilates, Joseph Pilates, he was a physiotherapist and he was in, I believe, a concentration camp, something of the sort during the war. And um, in order to help people that were injured in this camp, he used the bed and springs, which is what the reformer essentially is, to rehabilitate them, basically. And this is what he did. So this is where the reformer idea comes from, is because he used what he could get hold of in the camp during the war to be able to help rehabilitate people. So the reformer is just basically a tool, one of many tools within the Pilates world that can be used to help people. It's not a torture device, it's there to help people.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

I think he should have picked a he's probably a really smart guy, but I think he should have picked a different word for that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

That's just whether he called it a reformer, I'm not 100% sure, to be honest. Okay. I don't know where the actual reformer that we use today actually came into play, to be honest. I can't tell you that. I don't know the answer.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

But it's also, you know, I mentioned walking by the studios and seeing the tables, it feels a little intimidating, but it's not really that much different than walking by a gym where there's a bunch of equipment in there. You know, many, many people will not walk into a gym because of the equipment, too.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Yeah. If you're not familiar with something, you're immediately like concerned and scared about it. And I tend to get that a lot with women mostly.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

With lifting weights, for example. All women should lift weights. It's really, really essential to their bone health, their just general health. But they're all intimidated by weights because over the years we've been told you don't want to lift too many weights, you'll get too bulky, for example. So we it's changing people's mindsets and understanding that these things don't need to be intimidating. But it's also having the right instructor. Having the right person to teach you is really, really important. You've got to have the person that you gel with. Not everybody gels with me, for example, but the people that do gel with me, they they flourish in Pilates, in the gym, etc. So I would say 90% of the time it's the person that you're working with that makes the difference. So forget about the equipment, forget about everything like that. If you can get a good trainer that that fits your personality, the intimidation goes away.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

And presumably you you work with men as well.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Okay. I I recognize maybe not as many men, but I the question I want to ask you is do you think women are a little bit more likely to kind of ask for a little bit of help and and and maybe initiate a conversation with you? Whereas I think of men that maybe think they should be going to the gym. They they w but they really don't want to be the guy that walks in the gym that's never touched a weight set before.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

And to walk in and ask for help is is yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Women are more open to ask for help, and women are more open to group activities as well. So if you've got a class, for example, women are more. Produce that just like retreats. Retreats are more popular with women because they're happier to go in a group activity. And surprisingly, they're happier to travel solo as well. They're less intimidated to travel solo, which surprises me because men believe that they're all these confident kind of people. But when it comes down to things, they're actually not as confident as the majority of women.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Yeah, that's a whole nother conversation.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Yeah, that's a whole we could talk hours.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

I'm trying to think if I even want to, you know, as a as a male solo traveler for the last four and a half years, I actually kind of get it. You know, I mean, there are moments where, you know, it kind of taps into your ident uh your identity a little bit when you show up in a place and things don't go well, and and you can be a little bit like, ooh, geez, I don't like this because, you know, but anyway, that we'll save that conversation for another another day. But I'm curious about like the retreats. Let's get back to the retreats because I want to learn more about kind of what you're doing there. And I guess the first question that comes to mind is like, for example, the couples' retreats, because that doesn't always mean a man and a woman, but it it it's more likely to involve a man and woman than maybe some of your other retreats or just couples in general. Is do you notice, like, again, a a couple can be a couple, but if you've got a man and a woman, is the woman usually the one that sets it up? Are they the ones doing all this? And does their does their if they've got a male partner or any partner, does their partner know what they're getting into? Do you do you like do you feel sometimes like they're getting ambushed? Because, you know, I think sometimes guys think they're going on one type of trip and then they they all of a sudden are being forced to deal with their emotions and feelings and all that stuff. So I'd love to hear about that.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

I feel like women are the instigators. Like the majority of my inquiries come from the women, a very small biorision comes from men. Whether they feel like they're being ambushed, I don't know, because I don't know the conversation that they're having on the other side. And I'm personally not on the retreat, so I'm not, I cannot tell you the experience of those particular retreats. We're just the the company which is setting you up with the right retreat, where they're in-between people.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

So it's definitely the women that instigate, but I would I'd like to think that it's been a mutual agreement to go somewhere like that. I know if I was to take my husband somewhere, couldn't the thought of telling him he's going somewhere and not being the right place would be a disaster. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

I I remember maybe it's on the other side of it. I worked in the fly fishing business and I managed a fly fishing resort, and uh this couple showed up and actually it was a family, but the woman got off the boat and she looked me straight in the eyes. The first thing she said to me is, Hi, my name's Mary, and I do not want to be here. So, like, like maybe dragging your wife on a fly fishing trip is kind of like some woman dragging their husband on a couple's retreat in Greece or something. I so I can imagine being on the receiving end, they probably have some stories. But I'll also tell you, at the end of the week, she was the social butterfly. She was like giving the big hugs. Oh my gosh, I had so much fun. I didn't think I would like it. So you get that on the other side too. So that's uh that's pretty cool. How did you go from well? Let's because you started at the hotel as a fitness trainer, instructor. How did you get into the doing it for yourself and then walk me, walk me forward into retreats in Greece and how you started doing that?

SPEAKER_00 48:32

The hotel job was just like literally my key to get to Greece, get to cost.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

And when I I decided I didn't want to work for anybody, basically, when I worked there, I was like, I'm done with doing stuff for other people in that sense.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

So after the season had finished, I think how long did it, how long did it take you to figure that out in that job?

SPEAKER_00 48:55

About a month, I think. Not very long, not very long.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

You're quick, you learn quick. Good job.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Yeah. Um, so at that point, when the season finished, I decided that that was it. I'm gonna start setting up on my own. So I attempted, first of all, to set up an online personal training business. It was the craze at the time. Whether it still is the craze, I don't know. It didn't really work out, it was really not for me. I like personal interaction. So I started to personal train people, and then I did go and get a job in a gym, but as a freelancer. So I just went and taught my classes. I didn't work for the gym, I was a freelancer, and then I just expats basically came to me and said, Can you we do some classes? And I was like, Yeah, why not? So we picked a like a community place that they all hung out and we started to do classes. And to this day, these classes are still going, slightly different location, but it's not in a gym. One's in a dance school, one's in the back of a cafe. Um it's because these are the people that don't want to go to a gym. So it just kind of evolved my setting up on my own and people asking me, and the expat community, and then the Greek community going to a gym. And then my personal training, I go to people's houses. I'm not based in a gym, I'll go to people's houses and work with them at their own home. And then my dream was always to set up my own fitness retreats. So I thought I've got this beautiful island, let's bring here specifically to do retreats. And through what I was doing, I made some fabulous connections. And they said, You go and speak to this person, go and speak to this person before I knew it. I was hosting my own fitness retreats um here in Kosh, and they were incredible. But it's not so easy here to set up a business, and to actually have a retreat business, you needed to be a travel agent. So to sell a retreat package because you're selling, selling accommodation, you're selling the activities, you're selling it's really by law, you need to be a travel agent. So I went through this process to become a travel agent, but it costs a lot of money, it's not a cheap venture to do, and it was a lot of stress. And I was like, well, if I'm having to be a travel agent, why not do something a little bit more with it as well? Because I wasn't making a return from my retreats to make it worthwhile, if that makes sense. I'd set up a Facebook group called Retreats in Greece because there was nothing on Facebook for retreats in Greece. There was yoga retreats, there was retreats in Europe, retreats everywhere else. And this group grew pretty quickly. And then off the back of that, and the fact that I had to be a travel agent, and I thought, you know what, why don't I do a travel agency for retreats in Greece? So I set myself up my own website, a Wix website where I built it myself. Worked great, and the interest was there, and lots of hosts came to me saying we're interested in advertising with you, and it just grew that year. And so eventually I invested into building a nice site, which is a workable site, which is what you see today. And it's just everything's just organically grown. It's not being something like I want to do this, so I'm gonna go and do this. It's just it'd been an evolution from one thing to eventually get into where I am today. And I've built this not just selling retreats, I've built a community of hosts of people doing things with retreats in Greece. So people that have venues, people that do services, like maybe they're instructors, maybe they're caterers. So I've built this community up and it's constantly growing every single day. And retreats in Greece is a new venture. It started last year. We're still very, very new, but it's constantly growing, and it's just amazing, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

It's yeah, I can see the look on your face. It this is not something that you're just Yeah, you can I can tell that. What's the what's the typical so people that are listening to this, they're yeah, yeah, exactly. And so the people that are listening to this are gonna go to the link in the show notes, they're gonna go over to your website. What does the process look like? Is this a very consultative thing? Like, are they can they go on there and just book a retreat? Or is it best if they reach out to you and and have a conversation with you? Or what do you what do you think is the best way?

SPEAKER_00 53:19

So they can just go onto the website, look through the website, see a retreat, what's what they think is best for them. But what I personally I'd really recommend is that they go onto the website. The front page of the website has a discovery form. Click the discovery form, fill in the form. It lets me know how you're feeling, how you want to feel, what you like doing, the dates that you want to travel, your budget, etc. So it's a full discovery form. And then I will review all that information and try and find the right retreats to match to that person. Sometimes I'll need to ask more questions. So we it tends to be done via email or WhatsApp. Um, if people want to talk to me on the phone on the phone, they can do. I'm more than available to talk on the phone. But most people, because they're so busy in everyday life, email's generally better format. And then hopefully we find the right retreat for them and book them onto the right retreat. And because they're booking through a travel agency rather than a booking site, they're also getting this sort of travel security, which a lot of, especially people that don't travel a lot, like to know that they're being secure when they're traveling. They've got their insurance, they've got everything, they've got somebody looking after them. We at the moment we don't do flights, etc., but we do work with a team that can arrange flights, transfers, etc. So you can do everything pretty much all in one place if you really want. Or you can just book the retreat and you can organize your own flights. A lot of people, for example, if they come from the States or Canada, they'll come for the retreat and then they'll stay, go and visit some other places in Greece as well. They'll make the most of their trip. Do you so we can maybe use everything?

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Okay, that's what I was gonna ask. It it sounded like if they want to do three or four days somewhere else, not on the retreat, you can help them with that as well. I just want to make sure I was clear on that. Okay, all right, all right, that's very, very cool.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

Not me personally that will do that. It was being my team that we work with, which will help them do that. We hope in the future that we can do that. Um, that in my my goal for next year would be the next step that we can do that element as well.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

It just seems like you've got you've got partners you can work with that can that can help them make that make all that happen. All right, cool. So you're still doing the the Pilates and the wellness training. Are you doing any of your own retreats or are you have you really shifted to working with other with partners and their programs selling their retreats? Or help me understand that?

SPEAKER_00 55:55

So I do do my own retreats and I help other people host retreats hearing costs as well. So if people come from other places, they want to host a retreat and they don't know where the first place to start, I help them put their retreats together.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 56:09

This year I'm not doing any retreats hearing costs. I'm actually taking my Ivexia Pilates community to another another island. So we're going to Kalimnos to do a retreat. That's just a Pilates weekend away. But this year I've not done any fitness retreats. I hope that in the future we do get back to them. But the retreats in Greece Travel Agency has taken up so much time. Yeah, yeah, we'll do that.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

Very, very cool. All right. Julie, we covered we covered a bunch of stuff. I I suspect there were some things in there that I didn't get I didn't pick up on and I missed. And but I so I guess I want to ask you this. What do you before we wrap up, what do you wish I would have asked you, or what do you think I forgot to ask you that you want to make sure that our listeners hear before we wrap up?

SPEAKER_00 56:59

To be honest, I generally think you've asked everything. We've covered everything. We've covered the main thing is the retreats in Greece. Check the website out, really, and come and see what we can do for you. Um, especially if you've never been to Greece, discover how magical Greece actually is. Um, it is a place to heal. There's so much energy, ancient energy, ancient healing. The sea. There's so much to gain from Greece, not just from retreat, from just visiting in general. But I think we've covered everything. You've asked me more questions than anybody's ever asked me before.

SPEAKER_01 57:36

I'm a curious, I'm a curious kind of guy. It doesn't, it's not on purpose. They just they just come out. I open my mouth and the questions come out. So thank you. Thank you so much. It's been so fascinating. I just realized there is one question that I that I missed. Are retreats like families with kids? Is it a non-starter or should they go look at your website anyway? Do you have options? Can you help somebody with a family traveling with kids?

SPEAKER_00 58:02

At this moment, we don't have any retreats with kids on our website with us, but that's not to say that we never will. We're open to advertising all types of retreats. And there's a lot of people do offer mother-daughter retreats, father-son retreats. It's just that we're not specifically advertising them at this time. But I hope in the future that we do. We're constantly getting a few years. This is a podcast.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

Yeah. Yeah. So if you do if you're hosting a retreat in Greece, please get in contact with us and let us advertise for you. So yeah.

unknown 58:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

I'd love to advertise mother-daughter family retreats because I think every retreat has a place.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

Very, very cool. I do too. Thank you so much. I learned so much today. And it's going back to the beginning of the conversation, that's you mentioned that that's part of what that's what you love most about doing your podcast is learning things. And I'm you and I are so aligned on that. And so thank you so much for sharing some of your your stories, your wisdom. And that was a lot of fun. Let's do it again sometime.

SPEAKER_00 59:02

Thank you so much for having me. It's been a real pleasure. And I'd love to do it again. Thank you so much, Jason.

SPEAKER_01 59:07

Thanks, Jelly. We'll talk to you really soon. All right. Thanks. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Thank you. Bye bye.