Adventure Travel with Jorge Salas - New Paths Expeditions

Jorge Salas
CEO and Founder
New Paths Expeditions

Jorge Salas, the visionary CEO and founder of USA based New Paths Expeditions, is guiding the celebrated tour operator into its milestone 10th anniversary in 2024. With a lifelong passion for wildlife and exploration, Jorge has extensive experience in the travel industry, having led expeditions across South and Central America, Africa, Asia, Oceania, and the polar regions. He has served on the board of leading U.S. travel brands, including International Expeditions as Product Developer, Operations Director, Crisis Handler, Director of Safety, and Senior Expedition Leader, while creating personalized journeys for clients worldwide. His commitment to conservation and community development shines through his work with organizations in the Peruvian Amazon. Jorge’s expertise in travel logistics and safety, combined with his passion for transformative experiences, has established New Paths Expeditions as a premier provider of immersive journeys to over 65 exotic destinations.

summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small podcast, Jason Elkins speaks with Jorge Salas, the CEO and founder of New Paths Expeditions. Jorge shares his journey from a young boy inspired by his grandfather's National Geographic collection to becoming a leader in the adventure travel industry. He discusses the importance of connection in travel, the shift towards private trips post-pandemic, and the unique cultural experiences offered in destinations like Papua New Guinea. Jorge emphasizes the value of small group travel and the careful curation of trips to provide enriching experiences. He also shares exciting plans for family-oriented travel experiences with his daughter, Josefina, as they aim to create memorable adventures for families.

takeaways

• Jorge's passion for travel began at a young age, inspired by his grandfather's National Geographic collection.
• He has over 32 years of experience in the travel industry, starting as a guide in Chile.
• New Paths Expeditions focuses on small group travel to remote destinations.
• The pandemic has shifted traveler preferences towards private trips and family experiences.
• Cultural immersion is a key aspect of Jorge's travel philosophy.
• Papua New Guinea is highlighted as a unique and fascinating travel destination.
• Travel is about connection and sharing experiences with others.
• Jorge emphasizes the importance of expert guides in enhancing travel experiences.
• The company has grown to offer 58 destinations over 10 years.
• Future plans include family trips tailored for children, enhancing the travel experience for families.

Learn more about Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Marketing and join our private community to get episode updates, special access to our guests, and exclusive adventure travel offers on our website.

Transcript

Jason Elkins (00:01.039)
Welcome back everybody. Another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. I'm in Colombia right now. speaking with Jorge Salas. He is the CEO and founder of New Paths Expeditions. Jorge, where are you calling us from?

Jorge Salas (00:16.58)
Hello everybody and thank you Jason. I am right now in a little farm in the south of Peru, south of Lima, about three hours to the south of Lima. It is very close to the Ballesta Islands. Those who have visited Peru might have been there. It's the Ballesta Islands and very close to Pisco from where you take the flights to see the Nazca lines.

Jason Elkins (00:40.133)
All right, very, very cool. So is this, you said a farm, is this a family farm or your place or?

Jorge Salas (00:45.508)
Yes, well, I'm originally from Peru and my father had this farm and we're close to the, during the pandemic, we came to spend it here. And I have a daughter and we live here. Of course, when I'm not on a plane and traveling, gladly we have a...

like you, a moving life. during the holidays, we normally spend it here when we can. And that's where we are right now. Beautiful little spot.

Jason Elkins (01:16.903)
Very, very cool. All right. Sounds very nice. It sounds like a great place to spend the pandemic as opposed to where many people were at. So because I assume farm, you can go outside and do whatever you want. You don't have to worry about somebody. Anyway, we don't want to talk too much about that. Or hey, I'm really super fascinated by your story. And I want to go back a bit to kind of help our listeners kind of figure out how did you get from where you were?

Jorge Salas (01:23.278)
So, that's for today.

Jorge Salas (01:29.74)
Correct. It was quite a change.

Jason Elkins (01:45.415)
to where you are now. We'll talk more about where you are now, but let's start in the beginning. How far back do we need to go to kind of understand you,

Jorge Salas (01:52.772)
well, it started very young. I'm 52 at the moment and have been in the industry for 32 years. So that tells you that I started very, very young. I was lucky to be in the area of Chile. I'm originally from Peru.

And I always had this passion. I think that previous persons that you have interviewed here has mentioned that they started their passions. They started to dream about the life of travel through national geographics. I received a gift from my grandfather who was a world traveler and of his collection, very old.

Jason Elkins (02:25.22)
yeah, yep, yep.

Jorge Salas (02:36.452)
pieces. so I started, and I always say I want to be a photographer. I want to work as a wildlife photographer. And then when I was studying business administration, I started to do rock climbing. And of course I was in Chile at the moment and I ended up spending my summers in Patagonia. My best friend, and I'm going to mention him because we started our careers together that long ago, Sergio Bahamondes, he's still in the industry also.

And we started going there as waiters for hotels that were starting to pop in Torres del Paine National Park. And we were the first two guides for one of the leading hotels to steal this.

We were the first two guides for that hotel. And very soon we started to do mountain climbing and then mountain guides. And then we started becoming hiking guides and we did some crazy things. We were very young. We did one of the first descents in rafts of some of the rivers in the park when it was legal. And it was a fascinating time. And then a leader of one of the...

old companies of mountain travel, mountain companies, hiking companies. I got sick. I had very good English and or relatively good. so I took his position to save the situation. And the group really liked the what we did.

And we continued with that group and then we started to work for several American companies left for a little while because of personal projects. eventually I got back, I went back to working for an Australian British company. We did this.

Jorge Salas (04:26.944)
young 18 to 35 year old groups around South America over land and which were quite interesting. And then after a while, I was called by a US company to start leading trips for them. When ended up in the Amazon and to make it short, we

We ended up running the operations of five Amazon Cruises there. And little by little, got other degrees. This company was bought by other company who bought a lot of brands in the US. We got a lot of training from them. Then gladly I got a...

a mentor, Greg Greer, which if he hears this, I want to send him my best. He took me under his wing and took me around the world. And they started to do Papua New Guinea, Madagascar. Of course, at this point, had all of South America and they started to go around the world and leading these trips, all in natural history focus at this point, no more mountains and working for Americans and Americans.

companies and then I started to climb in this company and ended up having managed the product development. was the crisis manager and did a lot of other things, build ships and eventually I was starting to, you know, wasn't purchase of some companies. I had a, I have a degree in finance also. And at that point, and I was starting to spend time between traveling and having to wear a suit.

And then my daughter came 10 years ago and I became a father and I realized that things had changed. It was too corporate and I felt that things were changing in the businesses that I for which I was working at the time.

Jorge Salas (06:21.238)
and I wanted to go back to the field. had these ideas about small groups, remote destinations, where I had a lot of experience because of handling crisis and going and developing trips in very remote destinations. So I had an expertise in this country that not a lot of companies go. So there was a moment, know, there's a lot of competition in the world, but...

There is not a lot of people that want to go or don't know that they want to go to these destinations, like Papua New Guinea, like Asgard that I mentioned, in Ethiopia.

But we have an expertise. There might not be such a bigger market, but we have less competition. And that's where we want to go. And let's do it in small groups. And I had this dream. And I took the leap of faith and resigned to the corporation and started a new paths expeditions 10 years ago. And we did our first trip that was Ethiopia.

Then afterwards, Madagascar, there Papua New Guinea, then Mongolia, and we kept on going. Now we are on our 10th year anniversary and we, gladly we grew faster than we planned. But steadily, not too fast, faster than we planned, but not too fast. So we were able to maintain quality, the same standards that we had.

plan to provide since the beginning. And now we are 10th year and 58 destinations afterwards, talking to you from a farm in the south of Peru after returning from Guatemala and about to start a Kingdoms of Peru trip right after New Year's Eve.

Jason Elkins (08:02.475)
All right, wow, very cool. So that's quite a journey. I had a few questions that came up during that. I want to go back a little bit because I was really intrigued by, you you mentioned National Geographic had several people that I've spoken with that that played some sort of role for them. You said it was your grandfather, right? They had given you the National Geographic. Was he a traveler? What was his attachment to that? I want to learn more about that.

Jorge Salas (08:08.546)
Please

Jorge Salas (08:23.928)
Correct, his old collection.

Jorge Salas (08:30.82)
He was, sadly he's not with us anymore, but he had quite a unique story and he ended up going through many positions in Peru and then after Worlds Globally and he had an important position in the United Nations. And this was in the formative years, the second period of the United Nations, so lots of new countries appearing and he was involved in all this. So he had to travel a lot.

And I remember as a young kid going to the airport and seeing this Lufthansa planes leaving and taking my grandfather away. And then him coming back after three months for just three days of a visit, lots of chocolates for all the grandkids, a couple of stories and a couple of National Geographic magazines.

Jason Elkins (09:12.839)
Mm-hmm.

Jorge Salas (09:18.326)
and then leaving again. we will all in those years, it was a big event, going to the airport. So going and seeing these planes and seeing these people traveling and it was the golden era of flights. so it was quite unique. And I always wondered what was.

what was happening once he took this place and all these different cultures that he will talk about. And then one day he gave me as a gift his collection, which was quite big of National Geographic. So once I was 12 or 13, I would spend Sundays and after time after school, just growing, going through these magazines and just dreaming about exploring the world and.

Jason Elkins (10:02.043)
Yeah, yeah, that's.

Jorge Salas (10:02.148)
And gladly we were able to do that to what we always wanted.

Jason Elkins (10:06.919)
You certainly did. Do you remember at that age?

Were you able to envision maybe working in the tourism or travel industry, or was it just more of like, I want to go see these, I want to go travel the world. I mean, did you, I guess what I'm saying is when you're growing up, did it occur to you that you could actually make a living doing this, or was that just kind of, you learned that later.

Jorge Salas (10:32.057)
A da-

At that age, I don't think that I had an idea about making a living. I was still too young. But I remember saying, I'm going to be, it's one day telling my mom, I'm going to be a National Geographic photographer. I remember saying that. That's something that I remember saying. But I have to recognize that I feel extremely lucky and blessed because I still have my grandmother who's 100 years old and we are very, very close.

Jason Elkins (10:47.857)
Well, that's yeah, you mentioned that. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (11:00.55)
Wow.

Jorge Salas (11:02.706)
And not long ago, and I remember this, when hearing some of your previous podcasts today before this one.

And that she told me, you're very, very lucky because she pulled out a letter that I sent to my father in 1994 telling him that I was not coming back to Peru, that I was not going to the US where I had a scholarship, that I was staying in Patagonia.

and that I was going to start my own travel business with small groups to remote destinations and basically exactly what I'm doing now. And that is something that I completely forgot. And it was a lot of fun about it. This was about three weeks ago, I think, that she pulled this letter out and said, do you realize that you envisioned this long time ago? And I completely forgot. But I think that once I was somewhere in the 19 years old, I knew

Jason Elkins (11:51.559)
Wow.

Jorge Salas (12:03.751)
that I wanted to be in the travel industry and we just kept on going and gladly we're here.

Jason Elkins (12:12.123)
What do you, you said you kind of had forgotten about the letter, but I'm sure you kind of remember at that point in your life, how, how you either, how your parents did respond or how you thought they were going to re like, I'm envisioning you sitting there writing this letter and you're in a camp somewhere in Patagonia, right? In this letter, like dad, I figured it out and this is what I'm going to do, whether you like it or not. Do you remember worrying about how he was going to receive that or what he was going to think? Or I want to hear more about that.

Jorge Salas (12:42.41)
Absolutely, I remember myself sitting on the floor of this crew quarters at this lodge and writing this letter because I had to go back and I had the ticket that he helped me to purchase at the moment. And I said, I'm not getting on board. I'm so sorry. He was very kind because I got an opportunity and he provided some help.

Jason Elkins (12:54.873)
okay.

Jorge Salas (13:05.476)
And I'm so sorry, but this is what I was very nervous. It was a long letter. It was a long letter trying to explain myself. But no, he never answered. he and basically there were no cell phones or emails at the time. So I never got a letter back. But I kept on doing what I planned.

Jason Elkins (13:11.919)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (13:25.713)
Mm-hmm.

Jorge Salas (13:32.318)
And afterwards, of course, I kept a very close relationship with my father and he was always supporting me. He's a person that made us and more than that made us, motivated us to work since very, very young. And so I think he already knew that if I was going walking that path is because I already had a plan that I was decided to follow.

Jason Elkins (13:58.637)
Right. What did you go to school for the first time? I mean, you mentioned finance, but I don't know if that came later. So when you left home, like, OK, I'm going to school now. What was your plan?

Jorge Salas (14:06.892)
Yes.

I went to university in Chile, but I started very young, working since I was 11 years old, 10 and a half, at a family restaurant. And so I was always in service, and I always felt comfortable in service and attending guests. So I think that that helped a lot also. And then I went to Chile to study, and afterwards I spent some time in the US, but before and then...

Jason Elkins (14:26.875)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (14:32.933)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (14:39.461)
What were you, I'm curious though, what were like when you went to school in Chile, what was your major? What were you intending? What did your father think you were going to go to? I guess is what I'm asking. Okay.

Jorge Salas (14:40.748)
Sorry.

Jorge Salas (14:44.802)
Well, first it was hotel management, then we can validate courses to hotel and tourism management, and then we can validate courses to get a business administration, which is how it's called here, or it was called here. And then later, later I did a graduated courses in Cornell for marketing and finance.

Jason Elkins (14:59.814)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (15:07.833)
Okay. So it's not like you left home to go to school to be a lawyer and then, and your dad was excited about that. And then you're like, yeah, I'm in Patagonia. I'm never leaving. It wasn't quite that dramatic.

Jorge Salas (15:19.076)
No, no, but it was always, my life as I tell you, I think that the first job that I got as a waiter was, it was legal at that time. It was 10 years old. And then we started to move in other positions on these restaurants.

Jason Elkins (15:32.039)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (15:35.685)
All right. Was your dad, would you classify him as adventurous, wanderlust type, was he, how would you describe him?

Jorge Salas (15:42.942)
yes. yes. He was quite a unique, quite a unique individual. Sadly, he left us during the pandemic. So we are close to him. We remember him every day. He was a fantastic person and quite a unique life. He actually ended up, he was the, he was a

Jason Elkins (15:56.624)
Yeah, absolutely.

Jorge Salas (16:08.44)
Those years in Peru were very difficult and we all, everybody had to migrate from the Andes, those of us who come from the Andes to the coast. And that happened around the time that I was born and he was very young and with a young kid.

Jason Elkins (16:10.811)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (16:23.121)
Mm-hmm.

Jorge Salas (16:24.42)
And so he had to remake his life in Lima, which is the capital city and at the time had 50 % of the population because of all those bad years everybody migrated. But then eventually after he some success, Gladly, he decided to leave everything and go back to the original town.

from where my family comes from, which is called Juan Cabellica. And it's the poorest town in the poorest city in Peru at the time. And he became the mayor, leaving everything behind. And after that, he became the governor. But no one, he thought that his connections in Lima will allow him to...

obtain assistance for such a poor area of the country and suddenly he didn't. He got the response of poverty is not news at that time, no? Sadly and then so he decided look at this he decided to get on a horse our family we all love horses for generations and and he decided to get on a horse and then get 350

Native people from the Andes, native, native, no? From Juan Caberica, and they rode 500 kilometers to Lima. He started with 350 and he entered Lima with 65,000 people. And so if you're asking about adventures, whatever I do or we do, it's hard to beat that one.

Jason Elkins (17:49.873)
Holy cow. You're giving me chills, man.

Jason Elkins (17:57.735)
So the grandfather that you mentioned earlier was your dad's dad? Okay, I was just curious because I'm thinking you got some interesting people in your family.

Jorge Salas (18:02.23)
No, no, he was my mother's. So, from both sides, from both sides. It's been fun.

Jason Elkins (18:09.927)
All right, that's, yeah, yeah, that's very cool. That's great story. Okay, I forgot what my other questions were gonna be after that story. I think, go ahead.

Jorge Salas (18:22.1)
Sorry, actually I do want to mention one thing more thing of my father because this is being recorded and I want to finish this He ended up being the prime the prime minister of the country after that So it was see see see that that took him to a to that position to which he ended up and actually at the end Before the end of his life not many years Before that he returned to one Kabilika and kept on working for on his what was his life project

Jason Elkins (18:34.489)
Ooh, wow.

Jorge Salas (18:51.17)
So sorry, I wanted to finish the story because it's really, really, really warm, close to my heart.

Jason Elkins (18:52.775)
no, I'm happy. I'm happy you did. I didn't, I didn't want to cut you off. So thank you. Yeah. And one of the great things about, you know, the conversations like what we're having now is, you know, other people need to hear those stories. Right. So I'm sure people in your family have heard the stories, but this is something that, you know, we'll be around for a while. So someday your grandkids can be listening to it and, and hearing about, their great, great, great grandfather or whatever, however that falls in. So that's, pretty cool. Thank you for sharing that.

Jorge Salas (19:22.36)
Thank you for the opportunity.

Jason Elkins (19:22.695)
It's a, yeah, so, okay. So, totally derailed. What do you want to talk about, all right? All right. hey, hey, I was actually, well, and travel is about connection, right? And so that's what's great about it. For me, anyway, it's, the connection part of it is such a critical part.

Jorge Salas (19:30.82)
Well, let's talk about travel. We just came, you know, that's our cup of tea. and then our everything.

Jason Elkins (19:51.319)
I, if you said to me, you know, like I've never been to Machu Picchu. And if somebody says, you can go to Machu Picchu. I know, I know it's just down the road. I'm in Colombia. You're not far away. if someone said to me, you can go to Machu Picchu, you'll have the whole place all to yourself. You know, you can do the whole Inca trail and hang out at Machu Picchu and there won't be anyone else around to bother you. You'll just be by yourself. I'd be no thanks.

Jorge Salas (19:57.252)
We need to fix that.

Jason Elkins (20:19.375)
Honestly, it just that just doesn't appeal to me because for me, it's about sharing the experience. I'm not saying I want 400 people, you know, I'm not saying I like crowds, but for me, having an experience by myself is just like only half the deal. It's like I got it. I got to share it with someone. That's why I worked as a guide, you know, and I've done the guiding. I was a fishing guide in Montana. I love to fish, but I was always much happier taking other people fishing, watching them catch fish.

Jorge Salas (20:21.176)
Mm-hmm.

Jorge Salas (20:43.833)
Thank you.

Jason Elkins (20:49.191)
and sharing that experience with them, I get that. Or that's my take on it anyway. What do you think?

Jorge Salas (20:56.494)
Well, I totally agree with you, that the trip is, most of it is who you experience it with. course, and that's something that I don't think that is changing, but you just touch a subject that I have been speaking quite a bit in recently with partners and guests and groups of guests.

Because after the pandemic, we do at New Paths Expeditions remote destinations, as I mentioned, in a small group that balance nature and culture and lots of content and luminaries and experts as lecturers. But after the pandemic, and of course, we also do private trips for families, couples that request it.

But we have seen an increase in the private trips and families that used to go in small groups. Our groups are normally 10, 12, no more than 16. And that's only when we have a ship that we have to fill. And it's a 16-person ship that's in Papua New Guinea when we go to those numbers. So it's normally 10 or 12. And so we started to see people requesting to...

family trips only for them, rather than going in our small groups. And something that I have, I'm repeating constantly lately, that is fantastic. But there's something that with the small groups, and especially with the small groups the size of ours, is that you still have this intimate experience. You still have these guides and leaders that are top notch, that are really providing information, that have master's degrees, PhDs, that are traveling.

with you and we provide them also for the local guides for the private trips but in a lot of our destinations because we can have these numbers of 10 or 12 we can divide the cost of for example closing the Sphinx and having Saki Hawass the main archaeologists being able to give you a lecture before everyone else, anyone else enters the area.

Jorge Salas (23:08.904)
or go into the Lady of Cow, which is the oldest female ruler of the America, of the world actually that has been found. it is in...

in northern Peru, which is a fascinating destination. Everybody talks about Machu Picchu, but Peru has so much more. being able to go to the back of the house of the research, archaeological research facilities, and see mummies and pottery and amazing textiles that are not being presented at the museum because there are so many, but some of them, or they are being under research at the moment, and to participate and spend a couple of hours with them.

or for example, I just returned from visiting Walter Alva, the discoverer of the Lord of Sipan, the Tutankhamun of the Americas.

I just returned with my daughter from a wonderful 10 person group from Guatemala. And we had Francisco Estradavel spending with the main Mayan archeologist in activity today, spending time with us in all the Beten area where Tikal and Guachatun and Yaxcha are located.

If we would to do that without having a year to plan and without being able to divide the cost among a group of 10 or 12, those experiences would be very difficult to provide for a small group. So we can provide fantastic itineraries. That's what I love the most of my work is to curate the itineraries trips and then being able to have a small group and add this.

Jorge Salas (24:48.1)
elements, these components make the experience much richer. So we end up traveling and we are very lucky because we started as a club, New Paths Expeditions, we started as a traveling club. we have a lot, the majority of the people we have met each other.

during trips and then they have become friends and then they decide to go on another trip together. And also we have about, we call them the families, I would say we have about eight or nine, they are constantly deciding their next trips together. And this allows us to prepare this unique experience for them and see them becoming friends and life friends. And that's one of the biggest joys and results of these 10 years of New Paths.

Jason Elkins (25:37.019)
I'm happy you shared that because I can see where people might think, you know, listening to this, well, I've got to, you know, I just want to be with my family because, you know, because of COVID or whatever has been happening in their world, I want to be with my family. So they think I'm just going to go with my, maybe my, my, my spouse and my two kids and won't that be great. But what you mentioned both about sharing the cost, but also the plan, the lead time.

You know, because a typical family of four maybe says we want to go in two months, you know, and we don't care about the cost. You can bring in all these expert speakers. We don't care about the cost. But you got to say, look, this needs to be planned ahead. But but we just so happen to have a trip that we planned a year ago, a group trip that already has that. And we happen to have four spots on that trip. So it gives them an opportunity to go have a trip that they almost really can't.

do just as a private family. And I hadn't really thought about that, but you're right. Things need to be planned ahead. And if you can plan a year out, you can put together an itinerary that's not just dependent on what rooms are left or what guides are left, you know, and that type of thing. Are you leading a lot of the group trips yourself?

Jorge Salas (26:50.217)
The right, sorry. Yes, I do. I do all the new ones every year. There's one trip that I will never stop doing, hopefully. That is Papua New Guinea. That's Papua New Guinea. That's one that I've been doing for 27 years, I believe it is now, during the Mount Hagen Sinsing. I think I'm the oldest leader right now.

Jason Elkins (27:00.721)
Which one's that? Okay.

Jorge Salas (27:14.149)
there but and then I lead all the new ones no normally yep

Jason Elkins (27:17.681)
Well, on the Papua New Guinea trip, what is it about, what makes you say, I'm always gonna do that when I've done it for 27 years, I'm gonna do that as long as I can. What is the draw for you personally to do that?

Jorge Salas (27:31.908)
It's been so long that I have been going there. I have so many friends. It's such a different culture. To be honest, there are not many leaders in the area. training, the way of life is quite different from the Western world. so really, it's, but, and,

And then it's just so impressive. You see, Papa New Guinea, I really enjoy it. I have so many friends. I'm an honorary member of two clans. So there's a special relationship there. I don't think I could let it go. hopefully next year, hopefully in August 2025, I'm looking forward.

Jason Elkins (28:15.685)
When are you taking your daughter there?

Yeah, I was guessing with her age, was guessing it's going to be fairly close. And I says I can see the look on your face. You look very excited about that. That's going to be a special thing.

Jorge Salas (28:30.238)
see, no, no, in Papua New Guinea with the Mount Hagen scene and the civic river and the crocodile man, the scarification. It's so foreign and I have seen through years a lot of leaders and guides going through and there's a lot of information that has been gathered through these decades there that it's not easy to obtain because there are very tight cultures and they will not release this information.

easily that's why you will read that you know that the disc clarification I have not ever read anyone any document that has actually said what really happens and how it's done and why it's done so it's in inside information that we have been gathering for so many years

Jason Elkins (29:16.835)
You're, heard you say the scarification and I was able to see you kind of with a hand gesture, figure out what you're talking about, but anybody listening to this, doesn't have the benefit of seeing your face. so we're talking about scarring where they, will tell us, tell us about it.

Jorge Salas (29:32.356)
Correct, in the civic area, especially in the headwaters, not that much anymore, in the main civic river, which would be like the Amazon, just to get an idea, this would be the Amazon, or it's a tropical rainforest, a big river, and of course it has a lot of tributaries that come from the mountains of Papua New Guinea, on the headwaters, the crocodile men live.

Jason Elkins (29:49.21)
Right.

Jorge Salas (29:58.756)
And this is, know, Papua New Guinea is a very complex destination. know, 800 languages, not dialects, languages of the whole planet existed in Papua New Guinea. So you can imagine about the diversity of cultures. One of them is the one of the lowland forest and their main totem is the crocodile. So they have their spirit houses.

Sadly, they are being lost because of the influence of the outside world and we can find less and less even though there are some.

villages that are keeping them for a while. And this is spirit houses in the first floor. Normally there are two floors. There are certain variations. It's not written on stone, but on the first floor, it is the men's house where they carve wood. They're master carvers and they decide they do politics. And then on the second floor, they keep their totems, their family totems and the spirits of their ancestors.

And also it is there when they practice the scarification, which is done at the time of coming of age of males. But now, and for quite a while, it's also being practiced for different reasons, but it's also being practiced on women, which is quite interesting. And what they do is that it's a very painful process. It's very difficult. This is not a destination for everybody, but the most interesting one of the world, in my opinion.

Basically, they cut themselves by the female, their mother's brother, so their uncle is the one in charge of this, and it's a process of several months where they are put into a training, if you want to say, of mental and physical training in order to become a man.

Jorge Salas (31:58.756)
And it would be a little bit too long to get into the details of why of the release of blood, but it basically is that they need to release the blood when they were young before becoming adults. But the prophecy is extremely painful and it's a very, very long process.

but that's what they do. we nowadays, it's very hard to find them. We go, we take this old boat, but it's built in the resemblance of a spirit house. It's called the Spirit's Civic Spirit. And we, instead of traveling to the main river, as the only boats exploring that area, we go upstream looking for the really remote villages that have been seldom visited by anyone, especially tourists.

And I know a couple that have been going for all these decades, so I have my preferences, but they are quite remote. And there we can see real spirit houses and real Crocodile men. And I think that right now we are the only ones doing such a remote experience in New Guinea.

Jason Elkins (33:06.929)
I want to ask you this and not to turn it into a political conversation, but as I hear you describing it, I just want to ask what kind of what you think because, you know, there's places around the world, but I'm going to use a specific example of places in Africa where they have traditions, both for men and women. Specifically, I'm thinking of traditions that they have for young girls that

Jorge Salas (33:12.58)
Thanks.

Jason Elkins (33:34.607)
I think we can all kind of look at that and say, that's through our own cultural lens. can all look, you know, we, me, I don't know, I can look at it say, well, that's a horrible tradition that they really need to get rid of. And then when I hear you talking about young boys in Papua New Guinea, it's not a genital thing, but it's still kind of, you know, it's, there's a lot of similarities between the two.

Jorge Salas (33:47.04)
Yeah.

Jorge Salas (34:02.082)
Well, but with a big difference.

Jason Elkins (34:03.121)
But I don't jump to this place of, I don't jump to this place of, that's horrible. They should stop that. But I don't know if that's cause I'm a guy. I don't know. What do you think?

Jorge Salas (34:11.936)
See, Jason, there's a difference. The difference is the option and the reason why it's being done. I think that sadly these girls don't have an option. And it's not that it should have been an option, that you know what it's being practiced there. It's a horrible, dominating life.

spoiling activity in the case and certainly it's far away to what happens in New Guinea in this crocodile people. Maybe the logic of blood and pain, it's something that could be related but people in New Guinea have a choice. It's not that not everybody has to do it. Those who practice it is because of their own beliefs.

And even though it's a very difficult experience, it is something that they decide to do for traditional beliefs that they want to maintain. It's not imposed on them. Right? And actually they are very, very proud and they become

the new elders of the community, the owners of these periods and it's a reason of pride.

Jason Elkins (35:30.267)
Yeah, and I get that.

Jason Elkins (35:36.391)
Yeah, yeah, I get that. it's just where my head is like trying to figure out the differences. I can see that, especially with you explaining it. But it's just so when you have these vast cultural differences, sometimes it's just really hard to get your head around because.

Jorge Salas (35:52.714)
Absolutely. And absolutely. And if there's there's a place that you will find differences to our way of seeing the world, that is New Eden. It's not a trip for everybody. It's a very diverse one. It's an impressive one. I highly recommend it to everybody. Again, it's a place that I will keep on going. But it is because of that. Imagine I just mentioned one of the clans that we visit. I know it is. It's something that passing this this information requires.

Jason Elkins (36:00.72)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (36:15.589)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jorge Salas (36:22.092)
quite a bit of time, I was lucky to go several years with people that had experience before. so, now it's impossible to say which is your best trip, the place that you like the most, but I would say that Papua New Guinea is by far the most interesting place that I have ever been. And believe it not, it's the place that people say, I want to go back again.

Jason Elkins (36:32.519)
There you go.

Jorge Salas (36:51.98)
of my guests, which is really impressive. I experienced it. That's it. It was an interesting trip. no, it's actually people at the end of the trip, they say, this was the best travel experience of my life, and I want to go back. So just for you, that's it.

Jason Elkins (37:07.429)
That says a lot right there when it's like, want to go back, especially to a place that's, I don't know how difficult it is. I mean, it's it's in Asia, right? So it's a ways away. And I'm yeah, and I'm sure it's not a cheap trip. So for people to say, I've been to this place that's totally different than any other place I've ever went. And I want to go back as opposed to, OK, been there, done that. Now, where's the next great place? That's pretty cool. That's

Jorge Salas (37:18.766)
Go away.

Jorge Salas (37:23.467)
Nope.

Jason Elkins (37:37.639)
That's pretty cool.

Jorge Salas (37:37.668)
Especially those who are interested, remember the birds of paradise for nature lovers and everybody that loves anthropology, there's no better place. If you want to see Stone Age, people in Stone Age era, some of them, not all of them, there's a very advanced people in Port Morris, we have the whole thing, but certain areas, people in Stone Age, with cell phones. So we are seeing a clash of cultures at the same time. And the country's growing fast and building roads because they found out it's the natural gas.

Jason Elkins (37:41.767)
Mmm,

Jorge Salas (38:07.622)
And so it's a phenomenon that is happening now. And for me, it's quite interesting. Let's remember that these also were the people that 9,000 years ago, they were the most advanced people in the planet, together with the Omo Valley and Ifeope. I the first places where agriculture was developed. so there's a lot of questions of why did certain areas that were so advanced before.

they didn't continue this advancement, this progression. And those are questions that I still have. So that's probably why I really want to go. yes, I do. But so many places, not so many places. There have to be 58 so far with NPE, many more.

Jason Elkins (38:43.181)
You gotta keep going back.

It's very, very quiet.

Jorge Salas (38:54.486)
as a leader, but now 58 ones and we started doing all these remote ones, but we also, as I mentioned, we do Egypt, we do Peru, kingdoms of Peru. Morocco is very big for us, the Pantanal, the Jaguars of Pantanal. We just celebrated 10 years providing every single group has had quality sightings of wild Jaguars in the Pantanal and Patagonia. So it's been a lot and...

And when we do more, not mainstream, because we don't do any mainstream, but more common, like Machu Picchu or Egypt destination, not as remote as New Guinea or Madagascar, which Madagascar is amazing also, we do it in a different way. We look for the new path, right, at each destination with new activities and to really immerse people in their local culture without losing the comforts of our style of living.

Jason Elkins (39:51.687)
What percentage are you mostly doing the group expeditions or are you doing some private departures for people as well? What's your mix look like?

Jorge Salas (40:03.476)
We do both. I would say that right now it's a 50-50 at the beginning. The first year it was only groups and then we had a couple of FITs as we call them in the industry, private groups. And then it started to grow to, I would say, a good 60-40 before the pandemic. I think that right now we are in the 50-50s, if I have to give you a number.

Jason Elkins (40:13.031)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (40:25.735)
Do you feel like there's good crossover between the private, I know FITs is what we call them, but anybody listening might not know that's just a private, like a couple comes to you, wants to take a trip, you set it up for them, send them on their way. As opposed to the group trip that is set up with set dates and a fixed number of spots. I'm just saying that for anybody that's listening that's wondering what FID is. Anyway.

Jorge Salas (40:33.56)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (40:47.579)
Where I'm going with the question is, do you see much crossover in your client base? Like the people that do the group trips, do they pretty much always and only do group trips? And the people that do the private trips always and only do the private trips? Or do you have quite a few people that maybe go on a private trip with their family, but then they go on one of your group trips and then it just changes around? You know what mean?

Jorge Salas (41:09.526)
Absolutely. It changes. It changes. there has been, as I mentioned before, there has been an increase of FITs, of private trips, custom trips, for in, after the pandemic. But I'm seeing some of them returning. I believe that, you know, they want to travel with the family. They have not been traveling with their families for a while. Well, we already...

Jason Elkins (41:19.633)
Mm-hmm.

Jorge Salas (41:36.632)
past the bounce years, so they started on the bounce years. They had the rescheduled trips. They took those. Then they did a couple of trips when their families and now they are doing one with the family and one as a group departure because they also want to see their friends. As I mentioned, we are a little bit of a club and so that's what's happening right now. so I would say that it's a 50-50.

Jason Elkins (41:36.775)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (41:53.531)
Yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (42:02.671)
Also, yeah, I also wonder about, you know, the the group trips. I have a lot of history with group trips as well. But I'm curious on your take. Like I know when I had I worked in the fly fishing travel, so we did mostly fly fishing trips and oftentimes, you know, my favorite ones were the ones that had activities for, you know, bring bring your partner, bring your spouse, bring your kids. There's there's other stuff to do. That was always what I enjoyed the most. And I still just found a lot of

Jorge Salas (42:16.164)
Beautiful.

Jason Elkins (42:32.379)
guys that would, even if it was a family friendly place, they would join the group trip because their wife didn't like to travel. Probably maybe didn't like to fish, but regardless didn't even really wasn't into traveling. So I have these guys that would go anywhere with me and are like, Jason, where are we going next? Where are we going next? And, and I went on seven or eight trips with them, never met their wife, you know, and we were going to places that other guys were bringing their wives, but

Jorge Salas (42:55.531)
you

Jason Elkins (43:00.135)
I guess where I'm going with this is the group trips are kind of nice for the person that just the people in their lives just don't want to go with them for whatever reason, which that's probably going to we're going to discuss that in a second, that they just don't have people that want to travel with them and they can go out and make friends, figure out where they're going next, because you and I both know and probably a lot of our listeners know this. It's the last night at the place you're at.

And all the, okay, where are we going next? Where are we going next? Jorge, what do you got for us next? And as somebody that works in the business, you know, I remember my mentor always said, Jason, the best place to sell a trip is on a trip. You know, and I know you have that experience as well. So there's that part. Do you agree with, I mean, is that kind of what you see? Is that an important part of your group trip business?

Jorge Salas (43:41.572)
Of course.

Jorge Salas (43:53.998)
See, in my case, because we balance and we have a lot of activities, to be honest, spouses normally go together. In my groups, it usually happens when we do specialty trips, we have done a couple of fishing trips, but because someone requested it and we had the logistics to go to Argentina and we know everybody there, we have been doing it for so long. And in those cases, they were very specific and yes, we could see more guys going for the fishing trip and things like that.

Jason Elkins (44:01.071)
Okay, cool, cool, yeah.

Jorge Salas (44:23.962)
because we really try to balance nature, culture, the immersive in the current local culture, not only the archeology. We do cooking classes, even though we go to the market. we try to make it, the idea was, since when we did the first trip to Ethiopia, the idea is we're gonna travel so far.

just to do one little part of the country. No, we want to do have an integral view, a complete view of this destination, rather than just making an escapade and have a little view. So we try to do them as complete as possible. And so that's what happens with our groups and gladly, and then they become friends between each other and they decide.

Jason Elkins (45:12.173)
It's, I don't know because of the nature of what you're doing and what you were just describing. don't know if you've had many opportunities for this, but I enjoyed the fishing business. still love to fish. and I also managed to, resort or it's more of a lodge. would not, the word resort doesn't fit small lodge, 20 guests and off the coast of Belize. we had.

Jorge Salas (45:38.464)
Jason Elkins (45:39.505)
fly fishing. were all known for fly fishing, but also very good scuba diving. And we had kind of an eco tourism type package because there's so many, you know, we're 30 miles offshore on this at all. Amazing place. And what I found that was a place that people would bring their wives if their wives are into diving and snorkeling and outdoor stuff. And I always I was found that. I don't want to say the ladies because that sounds weird, but.

I'm going to say the non anglers or the people that were not there to fish were always just so much more fun to be around. I'm not going to lie because they're just like fishermen when someone's really, really, really focused on something, which fly fishermen tend to do. They're judged the quality of their day based on the number of fish they caught, the size of the fish they caught, the number of fish they saw that, you know, how many times the guide.

Jorge Salas (46:10.102)
Yeah.

Jorge Salas (46:15.268)
you

Jason Elkins (46:33.903)
screwed up and didn't put them in the right position. They're just so focused on the fishing and you know, they come back at the end of the day and that was all they want to talk about was, you know, all the can we switch guides? Can we? Because we didn't catch as many fishes they did in the other boat or whatever it is. And they're they're traveling. Commandings are the divers, the snorkels, whatever. They come back at the end of the day and like always it was amazing. we saw a turtle. We saw this and it was.

Jorge Salas (46:47.819)
Thank

Jorge Salas (47:02.37)
God.

Jason Elkins (47:03.535)
And they're just like, and they're all best friends now they're, you you've got these group of women from all over the country that all come together for one week and Belize and they're all best friends. And the guys are all just worried about the fishing and comparing notes. You know, you're sitting at the dinner table and the guys are all talking to each other, comparing notes about their fishing day. And the ladies are talking about their family, their grandkids, their, you know, their just whatever they're just like.

Jorge Salas (47:27.982)
Good.

Jason Elkins (47:32.399)
all best friends all of a I don't know if any of your trips, if that resonates with anything you guys have tried to do.

Jorge Salas (47:37.284)
You made me remember when I used to lead for previous companies and now we balance it because I think that in that diversity there's the taste, the good taste. I'm literally translating from Spanish, but I think that a little bit of everything is something that makes life a little bit brighter. That's my opinion. But you made me remember hardcore birthing groups.

Jason Elkins (47:57.545)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (48:02.494)
Bert, yeah, Berters. Yes, that's the other one. Yep.

Jorge Salas (48:03.376)
Yeah, see that's I did a lot of that, especially the Amazon and you know, and I did it for many years, couple of decades and a half to two decades. it was fantastic. I really enjoyed it. And especially if you like wildlife photography, of course, I was it was a dream, looking for that same species. don't care if I see it 20 times, but I'm looking for the light on the species. But just for the observation of it. And please don't misunderstand me, although all my hardcore birdie friends and I love it.

But yes, getting after that to the dinner and then discussing if the bird had a blue feather on the chin or not, and that will classify them. And having a discussion about that and sometimes a little bit emotional. Sometimes it can get a little That's a little bit too much for me.

Jason Elkins (48:48.924)
Yeah, yeah,

Jason Elkins (48:53.159)
Yeah, that's, that's, I haven't been around a lot of birders. but I get that, you know, I think they're, my impression is they're pretty serious about what, which is great. I, there's no, you know, no downside to that. It's great if people are going and exploring and they are inspired to protect environments and they are getting out and exploring the world, making connections. You know, I'm not sure. I'm not sure it matters what got him there. mean, and I definitely always felt that way. The fishing was.

Jorge Salas (49:03.339)
you

Jorge Salas (49:06.84)
Thank

Jorge Salas (49:16.548)
Sorry.

Jason Elkins (49:23.067)
The best, I think someone said it once, like the best thing about trout fishing is that trout live in beautiful places. Kind of like we go to these places that the excuse can be, I want to go fishing, but you find yourself in these amazing places with interesting people. And you know, so I'm not knocking. So I'm saying that because I've interviewed a few fly fishermen for the podcast. And I know I've got an audience that listens, that's into fly fishing and that that's cool. I still love it. And.

Jorge Salas (49:32.206)
Ahem.

Jason Elkins (49:51.975)
If you are that guy that I just described, next time you go on a trip like this with your wife, it's great that you pick a place that she likes as well, but take one day. And you know, that's what I always wanted my clients to do. And they'd come to the, they'd be at the fishing lodge. They fish for six days straight from 8 a.m. till five or 6 p.m. and just take one day and go with the app, the group that's going snorkeling or looking for manatees or go do a scuba diving.

Jorge Salas (50:02.148)
you

Jason Elkins (50:20.935)
of course, with your wife or something. And you'll see what I'm talking about if you haven't done it. anyway, thanks for going on that path. Hey, the other thing I wanted to ask you about is, like with group trips, sometimes people have these ideas. I don't want to go on a group trip. You gave us some good reasons for why you might want to go on a group trip. But the barriers are equally important.

And I think that sometimes it's like, I don't want to be on a group trip because I won't know anybody. I don't want to be in a group trip because I don't want to go on a group trip. And there's one really obnoxious person on the group trip that spoils it for everybody. Like, if I go with my family, I have some control whether I like my family or not. At least I know who I'm going with. They know me. I know them. So what would you want to tell somebody that?

Jorge Salas (51:04.885)
Absolutely.

Jason Elkins (51:12.583)
that hasn't been on a group trip that has those concerns or if there's other concerns you'd like to mention that would kind of help them think, well, maybe I should do this.

Jorge Salas (51:17.688)
Mm-hmm.

Jorge Salas (51:21.219)
See, thank you for the question because it's well first we do private trips as in of us as mentioned and and we can arrange them for for everybody and and especially with all the connections and the curating very careful curating the curation of our trips that we take care but Especially in groups are small like the ones new paths expeditions does offers We're talking about ten persons twelve persons. So it's not a massive group It's very different than getting

on those buses and then the guide with the flag and just the whistle, I am here. Gladly now that has ended with the microphones. Gladly now finally the microphones have appeared. Because we do go to the Thoms and the mosques in Morocco, for example, and you cross those groups and my God, I wish I should have arrived two minutes before. But now they are a little quieter. So that's not the reality. It's like talking

Jason Elkins (51:59.046)
my God, that would kill me.

Jorge Salas (52:21.124)
And I heard one of your podcasts, we also do small ships in Galapagos, in Patagonia and in the Amazon. one thing is what is a small ship? is a big group? We do really small. And there you will normally become friends. And the other thing is that people that take trips in the style and the design of the trips that we do are normally people that are...

you know, they are quite interested in the destination. They really want to learn. These are not vacations to go and relax at the beach. This is people that really want to learn. They really want to experience. And normally that attracts like-minded travelers. It's really rare, really rare that we have someone that is a problem on a trip. I'm not going to say that it has never happened, but it has been very, very few.

Normally the group takes care of it because it's such a small group that eventually, and then the leaders, that's why all our leaders have to have more than 25 years of experience in the field leading expeditions.

all of our leaders and that with very few exceptions and they all have to have a master's degree or a PhD. And our local guides with few exceptions, there are some very young exceptional guides that we have promoted them faster than others because of their incredible capacities and abilities. But normally our guides have 15 years of experience. A lot of what I've seen, I'm pretty sure that you know this very well, a lot of what we

Jason Elkins (53:35.153)
That's impressive.

Jorge Salas (54:03.274)
do is not just taking the groups and checking in and out to hotel checking out and calling the guy to be sure that the bus is on time. Most of our work the hardest. Correct. Correct.

Jason Elkins (54:11.687)
You're a counselor, psychiatrist, medical doctor sometimes when people step on things. Yeah, social coordinator, matchmaker, relationship counselor. I know it happens. I've seen it. I remember we... Yeah, all at once. Yeah.

Jorge Salas (54:18.468)
correct it's so it is our job to make it work it happens so far they are all together

Jason Elkins (54:37.479)
You know, we were 30 miles off shore. You know, we had people fall down, get hurt. And, know, it's like all kinds of, or the, person that decides to go back to drinking, you know, 10 years of soberness, you know, out on an island that you're like, man, this is going to be a challenge. I remember we had one, one. Yeah. I had, we had one lady, she got there with her family. So it was her, her husband and her two kids that were probably around 10, 11, 12, something like.

Jorge Salas (54:47.278)
You know what?

Jorge Salas (54:53.294)
So, so, see you tomorrow.

Jason Elkins (55:07.475)
And it's a week to week. It's a Saturday to Saturday. And I remember I went out to the boat dock to meet the group as they were coming in, they getting off the boat and greeting everybody. And I put out my hand. She gave me her hand, but she looked at me and said, I do not want to be here. This was not my idea. And I'm not going to enjoy myself. This is 30 seconds into the trip. And I'm like, boy. So that's, know, and as a.

Jorge Salas (55:26.628)
Well, good morning. my God.

Jason Elkins (55:36.263)
Lodge manager, you're your trip leader. It's the same exact thing. And I remember, you know, I was like, OK, but by the end of the week, she was the one giving all the hugs. She was the one that knew everybody's name, knew all about their kids and was just smiling and so happy. And she she said, I know, Jason, I know I told you that I didn't want to be here, but this was great. Thank you so much. and that didn't just happen by itself. You know.

Jorge Salas (55:47.364)
Good, well done.

Jorge Salas (55:52.804)
that's so good.

Jorge Salas (56:01.4)
That is fantastic.

Of course, congratulations.

Jason Elkins (56:05.863)
Both my my my fiance at the time who later became my wife. We were there managing the place together. We both looked at each other. OK, we know what our job is this week. We're going to send her home happy whether she wants to or not. So it's it's an important thing. And the reason I. Yeah, good.

Jorge Salas (56:20.244)
Let's Yeah, that's.

That's something that you know, what you did there. And not everybody can be a leader, It's not everybody can be a leader. There's a cut of personality. That's what we do. That's our effort. And that's why I think that traveling with groups, to go back to your question, it's a great option, especially if you know where you're getting into. If you want to learn a destination, if you want to experience it and really have unique

events, things that you will not see, not even if you have a local friend, and really get unique experiences again, like being in the Sphinx in the morning at sunrise with Saki Hawas and all this. That's something that you can achieve in these small groups.

Jason Elkins (57:11.079)
Well, the other consideration that I came up with is you can do a private group, a private departure. You can put together an FIT for a family. But usually, and I don't know, maybe yours are different, so correct me if I'm wrong, but usually the FIT is like, okay, we've got someone to pick you up at the airport, take you to your hotel, you get checked in your hotel. We've got a tour arranged the following day.

And then we've got to transfer to another place. And so we put together all the parts. But what you sometimes lack in that, and the FITs that I'm familiar with, is that consistency also. That there's many, many times when you're in a private group, this might sound appealing, and maybe it is to some people, but there's many times in a private group where you're kind of in between the transfer driver and the guide. And you're a little bit on your own. And there's not.

Jorge Salas (57:51.844)
Correct.

Jason Elkins (58:07.301)
really that consistency there. Maybe, you know, depending on the trip, maybe this is your night, you're on your own for dinner type of thing, which most people can kind of figure out. But with the group, what's pretty cool is there's one usually one person, maybe more depending on that. But there's usually one person that provides that consistency throughout so that like, I can't remember what we're doing next. Where's Jason? You know, there's Jason over there talking to the rest of the group and

Hey Jason, I know I know I've got my itinerary, but I don't know where it is. What are we doing tomorrow? What time you know? And there's that that consistency throughout so you know you've always got somebody the same person. You figure out each other's personalities. And what's also great about a group is most of the time I maybe the smaller ships. It's a little harder, but most of the time you can kind of go have some privacy and have some space if you know if you want to step away and go.

Jorge Salas (58:51.448)
Right.

Jorge Salas (59:01.637)
yes.

Jason Elkins (59:04.999)
try and do an adventurous dinner on your own that night or something usually, you know, so you've got kind of the best of both worlds. That's just my thought. I mean, does that.

Jorge Salas (59:08.516)
correct.

has to be built in. That has to be built. Something that we do when we design these strips, which by the way, some of them take up to two years to design. And then the private ones really take advantage of the design that has been made before. we do customize our trips because of personal interests and they want more of a particular type of activity and we change them.

Jason Elkins (59:27.377)
Mm-hmm.

Jorge Salas (59:41.306)
some of these trips to be able to include all this and have all the pacing, we need three, four scouting of the trip. We really invest in the design of these trips. And that's something that I love doing. And certain trips, I repeat, it's up to two years of work to get them to be perfect and maximize the amount of time and not having one-nighters and making them have the right pacing. Pacing for us is so important. Of course, safety, security, pacing, it's so important that

Jason Elkins (59:49.147)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (59:57.159)
Yeah.

Jorge Salas (01:00:11.266)
that people have their private enough downtime, but not too much that everybody gets bored. And also that you have here and there, we normally do it all out all the meals. But if we are in this particular city that has these wonderful restaurants and there are many options, that meals we won't include it not because we don't want, but we feel that that night.

you know, maybe the couples want to go out or maybe, you know, the two couple friends want to go to have this type of food and the other is one that a little bit more sophisticated one. So we think about all these things. And one thing that I do want to mention the...

Jason Elkins (01:00:39.281)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:00:45.147)
Or you might get two couples that met on that trip that have some similar interests. both, they're really all into Italian food and then they want to go, the two couples, whatever. And then you've got the trip leader there to, I don't want to say round up, but to make sure that nobody feels left out. If they don't want to be left out, if someone wants to go off by themselves, fine. But what you don't want is the...

Jorge Salas (01:00:56.43)
Good.

Jorge Salas (01:01:05.656)
Correct. Correct.

Jorge Salas (01:01:10.98)
Correct.

Jason Elkins (01:01:12.071)
The click thing is hard. The social clicks that happen in society sometimes happen in the small groups. Not too bad. I don't think a group of 10 to 12, I don't think it happens very often because it's small enough that you can all have that intimacy. It's probably when you have a group of 20 or 30 where you're going to get three or four clicks and then you've got that one guy who just, whatever reason, he's obnoxious, whatever.

Jorge Salas (01:01:36.078)
didn't click away. See, gladly that doesn't happen with us because of the trip and something that you see, so it's very important that you leave all these things and that we have a leader there. But on the private trips, something that we are doing and this is, we have been able to achieve it not long ago, to be honest, but.

we are working on departures that we have one guide, so a leader, with our standards even for departures of two persons.

Jason Elkins (01:02:09.809)
Okay, yeah, that can be a good fix.

Jorge Salas (01:02:09.846)
No. So Patagonia, we have this wonderful Patagonia 18-hour renew one with this incredible hotel that is outside the National Park of Torres del Paine, but it's half the size of the park and it's exactly the same nature with one same views of the Paine Towers. And I think we are the only company that has it included in its Patagonia as a group departure, but we can depart with as little as two and with an NPE trained leader with the characteristics that I mentioned.

Pantanal also we had four departures of two persons and it's the same leader. It's not what you mentioned. You that you go from the airport, you arrive to one place and you have one guy who okay, he's clicking his hours. He's a good guy. He has a good explanation about the museum or something like that leaves you at the hotel. Bye bye tomorrow. There's another one. It's a different experience to have somebody that is reading you that learns your preferences and really works hard to provide and fix.

anything that you might not like, no, because we are all different. So we have that there, we have that in Guatemala with two persons, Peru, Morocco. So we are working now in trying to create these trips that people can take them in even smaller groups with the same service of one of our bigger groups, which are 10 persons, as I mentioned, that really big.

Jason Elkins (01:03:12.295)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:03:24.839)
That's good.

Jason Elkins (01:03:32.293)
Yeah. And I think anybody listening to this can recognize the challenges that can present. instead of just saying, well, why don't you do that with everybody? Why doesn't everybody have one guide for the entire time? Because there's, there's challenges. Cause a lot of these guides in these places, that's just not what they, they don't go spend a week with you. They've got family. They, know, they're, they're used to doing day trips. You got to find somebody that is willing and able. I think able is a super important part, but also willing.

to go spend a week away from their family. Now you've got accommodations. You've got to find accommodations for these, for these guides. You've got sometimes more transportational issues. So it can be a little bit more complicated and I'm happy it came up because that, that can be very work, very worthwhile, especially if they're going somewhere. I've never been to Morocco. I have no idea. I don't know if that's an easy place. I'm pretty comfortable traveling anywhere by myself, but if you're going somewhere that's a little bit more complicated, it might be nice to have that peace of mind of having someone.

Jorge Salas (01:04:09.444)
Correct.

Jorge Salas (01:04:15.104)
It is tricky.

Jorge Salas (01:04:27.62)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:04:32.517)
Now even Guatemala.

Jorge Salas (01:04:33.316)
Absolutely, it is difficult because there's regulations, country regulations, sometimes you have, so for two person, then you have to have the guide that is going and then the guide that it's local and so it can add up. And then hotels, then where do we stay and the flights. And we don't want to make it extra expensive. We want it to keep the same price as a group, as a private or small.

Jason Elkins (01:04:41.654)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:04:50.149)
Regulations, the policy, the, yep.

Jorge Salas (01:05:02.144)
Working all that, has taken a while. Working with all our partners in hotels and transport companies. And we have come with very, very nice deals and agreements in order to make this happen so that we can provide the service that we always provide, even in a small group. And that we have achieved in a lot of our destinations.

Jason Elkins (01:05:16.923)
Yeah, cause you just, I'm thinking of an example of what you're saying about the complication, regulations, politics, whatever, all these things. Right. one of the chat, just an example is like, you know, okay, you hire, you've got a great guide that also has transportation, whatever he's going to be transporting them and guiding them. Let's just say hypothetically, but he can't pick them up at the airport because there's a union.

You know, there's the transfer drivers, the taxi drivers. You got to have a permit to pick people up at the airport. And in order to get the permit, you have to have this and that. And it might not be relevant to this guy. It's normal data, you know. And it's kind of a job creation scheme you see in lot of parts of the world. It's like, OK, you're a taxi driver. You got to have this regulation to be a taxi driver. And then if you're going to guide somebody, you got to be this person.

Jorge Salas (01:05:44.312)
happens.

Jorge Salas (01:05:49.348)
Hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:06:07.559)
If you, if you want to take, you know, it's just so complicated to get one person that can do all that without, without also without off the other people. Because if you've got the day guides, you know, there's a lot of day guides that say in a Cusco, let's just say Cusco bunch of day guides that just do day trips. And then they see some guy out with the group for three or four days at three or four places and they get all that worked up because well, that's, this is my turf, right? It's kind of that.

Jorge Salas (01:06:36.292)
Correct.

Jason Elkins (01:06:36.337)
pissing match or that that turf thing but anyway

Jorge Salas (01:06:39.852)
And then when you have border crossings in certain countries, certainly between certain countries, so that vehicle cannot enter and you have to switch vehicles and no, they used to have it. It's much more relaxed nowadays. But before we used to have quite a bit of those. And of course, destinations like Patagonia or this Atacama with unity, Ticaca trip. So it's Chile, Bolivia and Peru with uni, Salt Lake.

Jason Elkins (01:06:43.18)
yeah!

Jorge Salas (01:07:03.724)
every time we got to a border so we could not take the same guide from each country, right? And we wanted to use one. no, he's from this nationality, you cannot enter. So it was tricky. Now it's a little bit easier.

Jason Elkins (01:07:08.921)
Yeah

Jason Elkins (01:07:13.529)
Yeah. And, or try and convince the border crossing guy that no, I'm not their guide. I'm just their friend traveling with them. Not, I'm sure that's never happened, but anyway, been a fun conversation or I think we could just keep talking forever. You have enough destinations, enough experience. We should probably do a whole podcast series.

Jorge Salas (01:07:21.38)
No, of course not.

Jason Elkins (01:07:38.611)
just, know, for, for your business and, connect with some of the people that have been traveling. Anyway, my point is there's a lot of great stuff to discuss. I'm curious, is there anything I forgot to ask you should have asked you, or that you want to make sure that, that we cover before we wrap it up?

Jorge Salas (01:07:38.849)
Nah, you're very good.

Jorge Salas (01:07:55.64)
Well, it's been a fantastic talk and yes, I could keep on chatting with you. I hope we get you to visit Mr. Machu Picchu while I'm still in Peru and we can do it in person. But no, really thank you for the opportunity and thank you for everybody that has been listening to this.

We are, we do what we do with a lot of passion. And by the way, one thing that I didn't mention is that we are working now. I'm the single parent of this beautiful, wonderful travel companion that is my 12 year old daughter, Josefina. And she has been my assistant leader in a few of our trips in the Asia. She already have moved quite a bit. So we are planning. do want to mention this, stay tuned, have a look because

Jason Elkins (01:08:37.23)
Jorge Salas (01:08:44.3)
I'm still deciding if it's going to be a different brand or part of new paths, but we already got a lot of experience traveling with younger persons. so I think that the family trips that we are thinking for Patagonia, for Morocco, Guatemala, learning with Galapagos.

Jason Elkins (01:08:55.27)
Uh-huh.

Jorge Salas (01:09:05.886)
learning experiences with activities tailored to the kids but also that the parents can go enjoy themselves will take care of of everything and But they will be fun

Jason Elkins (01:09:16.924)
Love it.

Jorge Salas (01:09:17.732)
learning experience and that's something that we're working very, very hard. It's not ready yet. We have some destinations, four destinations already selected that we are working, working into every single activity, know, microscopes and the Amazon and it's something that we want to work and then new paths. I hope that everybody can get a minute and visit our website and check out our wonderful trips because we, if you like to travel, if you are experiencing traveling in third world countries and have

an open mind and we are very flexible. We adapt to everybody's needs and we really work hard to try to provide the best travel experience that it is possible respecting each destination. So I hope that they get to visit us.

Jason Elkins (01:10:03.949)
Love it. A couple of things. Sounds like Josephine is going to be your co-host on these trips and that's pretty exciting. That's, yep, co-trip leader and that's super exciting. And I think there's a great opportunity for trips like that because families with young kids usually can't go on group trips because, you know, that can be a real challenge, you know, and to have a group trip that works well for everybody in the age ring, you know, down to whatever. I mean, probably don't need the two year olds, but I don't know.

Jorge Salas (01:10:10.852)
Correct, see, because the family trips, yes.

Jason Elkins (01:10:33.297)
That's up to you. anyway, but, but, I also wanted to mention your website is great. So anybody who's listening to this that's thinking, maybe I should go look at it, go look at it. Cause there are a lot of information, well, well presented, you know, I, do adventure travel marketing stuff. I, I, I was impressed by your website. It looks great. And I look forward to, working on some projects with you in the future or, thank you so much for joining us.

Jorge Salas (01:10:33.322)
No, of course not. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Jorge Salas (01:10:42.815)
Thank you so much.

Jorge Salas (01:10:55.182)
Thank you so much.

Jorge Salas (01:11:02.072)
Thank you so much, Jason, and thank you everybody for listening. I hope we didn't bore you, and Jason, really, a pleasure to meet you, and hopefully we can do it in person soon.

Jason Elkins (01:11:13.275)
Well, if there's if they're still listening, we didn't bore them because it's a podcast. can they can turn it off pretty quick and easy. So we might just be speaking to ourselves right now. I don't know. But anyway, if anybody that doesn't listen to this, thanks for making it to the end with us. Thanks, or I appreciate you.

Jorge Salas (01:11:16.544)
You

Jorge Salas (01:11:28.376)
Thank you, thank you Jason, thank you everybody, bye bye.