Adventure Travel with Pilar Osorio - Ancestral Travel Colombia

Pilar Osorio
Communications Advisor
Ancestral Travel Colombia

As a Communication Advisor, I channel my passion for storytelling into sustainable tourism and purpose-driven projects, fostering experiences that respect both people and the planet. I am also a literature professor with a PhD in Literature and Film, for whom literature has always been a way of journeying—a portal to new worlds, emotions, and perspectives.

For me, travel is about connecting with the emotions, people and stories that shape our world. My consulting work allows me to merge my passions for justice, nature, and storytelling, creating experiences that emphasize harmony and respect. I find great joy in connecting my storytelling expertise with communication for business, helping to develop purpose-driven projects that make a meaningful impact. I am committed to living in balance with the world, honoring the land, its people, and the powerful narratives we share.

summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Pilar Osorio, a communications advisor for Ancestral, about her journey through travel, literature, and the importance of effective communication in tourism. Pilar shares her early experiences traveling as a child, the influence of literature on her travels, and how she now helps travel companies communicate their unique stories and values. The conversation delves into cultural differences, the significance of authenticity, and the challenges of cross-cultural communication in the tourism industry. Pilar emphasizes the power of storytelling and the need for businesses to connect with their audiences through genuine narratives.

takeaways

• Pilar's love for travel began in childhood due to her father's diplomatic career.
• Literature has a profound impact on Pilar's travel experiences and connections.
• Cultural differences significantly affect communication in tourism.
• Authenticity is crucial for travel companies to connect with clients.
• Effective communication can empower businesses and enhance their impact.
• Pilar emphasizes the importance of storytelling in conveying a company's values.
• Egos can be a challenge in both small and large businesses.
• Language plays a vital role in tourism and client interactions.
• Pilar's work focuses on helping small businesses communicate effectively.
• Travel and literature share a deep connection that enriches experiences.

Learn more about Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Marketing and join our private community to get episode updates, special access to our guests, and exclusive adventure travel offers on our website.

Transcript

Jason Elkins (00:01.543)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. As many of you know, I've got quite a connection with Colombia and I ran into someone recently at a kind of a tourism trade thing. And I just, was impressed by her and I wanted to ask her to come on and share her story with us a little bit. So today we've got Pilar Osorio. She is a communications advisor for Ancestral. Pilar, welcome to the show.

Pilar Osorio (00:29.144)
Hi Jason, so happy to be here.

Jason Elkins (00:31.685)
Happy to have you. It's good to see you again. I enjoyed our initial conversation. We've spoke a couple times now and I've enjoyed both of those. As a communications person, really enjoy just the way you present ideas. And so it's real nice to have you on the show. And so where are you located right now?

Pilar Osorio (00:49.378)
I am in Bogota, main city of Colombia. Yeah, I do live here.

Jason Elkins (00:50.835)
Okay, you live in Bogota? I'm gonna ask you some questions I know the answer to, mostly for those listening and Pilar, I'm just up the road, I guess up the road in Medellin. So it's a nice treat to have this conversation. We should have figured out a way to do it in person, but here we are looking at each other in the computer screen. So really what I wanna touch on is really about you. Just kinda wanna understand your story. How did...

Pilar Osorio (01:09.22)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:18.953)
How did I come to meet you at a tourism event in Valledupar not too long ago? So how far back do we need to go to start that story? How far do you want to go?

Pilar Osorio (01:27.332)
I guess it all began... It's a long, long trip. I would say that I love traveling. I don't have memories of my life without having a travel in the spot. know, one is the next time I'm going to be abroad or exploring the country. But I studied literature.

Jason Elkins (01:32.102)
What's your first memory? What's the first thing you remember?

Pilar Osorio (01:55.588)
So it was a hard combination because for a time I was thinking about working, like dedicating my life into traveling. But I also have this obsession with books. So it was a big decision to go into books. But when I studied literature, I enjoyed a lot the communication classes and learning how to teach people to communicate their ideas and their wishes.

and their fantasies. So it was... Yeah. So...

Jason Elkins (02:28.169)
That sounds like a great match for tourism, really. Right? Because everything you just mentioned is why most of us are doing this, is to get inspired in fantasies and expressing and connecting. And I see the connection. And I want to know when the travel thing started. What was your childhood like that got you thinking you wanted to travel?

Pilar Osorio (02:50.696)
I traveled a lot as a kid. My dad was a diplomat, so we traveled a lot with him. The first eight years of my life, we were moving around a lot between in Latin America. And then my mom's family, he passed, but my mom's family has a lot of farms in the countryside in Colombia. So we traveled almost once a one weekend a month, something like that.

Jason Elkins (03:17.555)
Okay.

Pilar Osorio (03:18.742)
So yeah, traveling and being in nature was a big thing for me and I grew up in a farm. So I guess my connection to nature is really strong because of that.

Jason Elkins (03:25.565)
OK.

Jason Elkins (03:30.451)
Yeah, where's the first place you remember like when you were moving around, you mentioned, you know, throughout Latin America, first eight years of your life. What's the first place you remember being?

Pilar Osorio (03:40.654)
Montevideo. In Montevideo. In Montevideo I remember being there and eating alfajores and milanesas.

Jason Elkins (03:42.019)
Okay. All right.

Jason Elkins (03:48.729)
Okay, tell our listeners I actually do know what that is, but tell our listeners what that is

Pilar Osorio (03:53.988)
that is going to be hard to explain in English because my heart remembers in Spanish, but I'll do my best. So, milanesas are this meat that is... How do you say banana? It's like with bread crumbles surrounded by bread crumbles.

Jason Elkins (04:00.681)
that's interesting, okay.

Jason Elkins (04:16.233)
Yeah, Fortunately, I think most of of our listeners probably do know the word empanada. So you could compare it to that. Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (04:23.748)
apanaz, apanaz, like in bread crumbles surrounded with it and you fry apanaz, yeah, and you deep fry the meat surrounded by these bread crumbles and they're like the best thing in the world. If you ever go.

Jason Elkins (04:28.937)
app analysis. Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (04:39.113)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (04:42.515)
So was this corn? Because I know some places they do like the corn, they use the corn meal for the empanada. That's pretty much what they do in Colombia here, right?

Pilar Osorio (04:52.13)
Yeah, but I'm talking about apanadas. Apanadas is similar to bread. So you cover the meat with something similar to bread and you deep fry it.

Jason Elkins (04:55.311)
It is OK, thank you, because I can't. I almost can't hear the difference.

Jason Elkins (05:04.392)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (05:11.835)
Okay. I guess I did not know what you're talking about. was thinking of, isn't there a.

Pilar Osorio (05:15.204)
It's insanely tasty but anyway, and Alfajores that is this cookie that is with in the middle they have dulce de leche that is like this super tasty thing out of milk and a lot of sugar. It's not really healthy but it's really good.

Jason Elkins (05:21.297)
Alpha Horace, that's what I was thinking. Yeah, OK.

Jason Elkins (05:34.641)
I noticed that we're recording this at about 430 in the afternoon. think you and I are probably both hungry, ready for dinner. Because we got into the food conversation really, really quick and it's not helping. anyway, so that was your first memory was in Montevideo. How long were you there?

Pilar Osorio (05:41.684)
Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (05:57.322)
It was almost five years, but we were like that was the base and we moved for some times to Argentina and to Paraguay and Brazil and that was because of my dad's job.

Jason Elkins (06:09.577)
Have you been back to that area since?

Pilar Osorio (06:12.926)
No, to Argentina I have been. Buenos Aires is like my dream city is like one of the places that I love the most in the world. But I haven't been able to go back to Montevideo because I have such beautiful memories there that I want to keep them like that. like, like they're like my little treasure and I don't want to see things besides I learned to talk there and I have my memories are all like.

Jason Elkins (06:15.56)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (06:30.89)
OK. All right. Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (06:42.372)
you know, really short perspective, a little low perspective. I don't know how to explain that.

Jason Elkins (06:45.477)
yeah, yeah. And it, no, I, yeah, I get that completely. My son, he was born in Vermont and we were there till he was about eight. And then we went to Arizona and I'm traveling now, but he still keeps telling me, dad, I want to go back to Vermont. When I finished school, I'm going to go back and live in Vermont. And I want to go back to Vermont, see my friends and see all these things.

Pilar Osorio (06:54.487)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (07:11.017)
And it's hard. I don't want to squash his enthusiasm for whatever he wants to do, but I also know what that's like to go back because he's got all these fond memories of it and of his little eight year old friends in school. And I'm like, Jackson, I don't think they they might remember you, but it's going to be different. You know, and it's from your perspective, it was all much bigger and spectacular. And sometimes you go back to your childhood home and it's like, OK, this is a.

Pilar Osorio (07:26.98)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (07:40.157)
Definitely not the way I remembered it. honestly, the way he remembers it probably is a lot better than, but I don't know. He gets to decide that. It sounds like you've made the decision for yourself and my son will have to figure that out on his own, guess. so Buenos Aires, why is Buenos Aires like your place?

Pilar Osorio (07:46.817)
Exactly, that's why...

Pilar Osorio (08:01.188)
Because I think it's a really vibrant city. It has like a lot of cultural things and the music is amazing. Literature is amazing there. Like in every corner you see something really interesting. And I loved the way like people treat each other. Also the food is really good. And for me, like the main authors that made me decide going to literature are from Argentina.

Jason Elkins (08:30.685)
Okay.

Pilar Osorio (08:30.744)
So I guess there's an emotional connection with Argentina.

Jason Elkins (08:36.115)
Do you, when you have emotional connections with places, is it almost always tied to literature? I'm just curious. Yeah, yeah, I can see that.

Pilar Osorio (08:42.434)
Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes I do. Sometimes I do. think the strongest is with one-usitis. But there are places I want to know because of literature, for example, I want to know some Saint Petersburg in Russia because I was obsessed with Dostoyevsky for a while. So I would love to see what I read in my imagination.

Jason Elkins (09:04.797)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (09:11.017)
So that brings up an interesting thought for me. I know I like to read as well. oftentimes now I've been around long enough and read enough books now that I'll read a book and then it comes out in the movie. And actually we've got one getting ready to come out on Netflix. I don't, did you like 100 years of solitude is going to be on Netflix. It's a, yep, we're in early December. It's supposed to be released on I think the 11th of December or something like that. So soon.

Pilar Osorio (09:25.262)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, next week I think.

Jason Elkins (09:40.455)
So I'm excited about that. But anyway, where I'm going with that is I read a book and then I go watch a movie and it doesn't line up with because my imagination takes the words and creates the imagery and I get images of what somebody should look like. And then you go to the movie theater and it's why did they cast that person? That guy does not look anything like the guy in the book. And we all we all interpret the books differently, so we're all dealing with the same thing. And I wonder that's.

Pilar Osorio (10:00.737)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (10:10.089)
A little different, but I guess the reason I brought this up is like when you read a book or a few books, a Dostoevsky or something, and then you go to St. Petersburg, do you ever feel like, I mean, you haven't gone there, but is there ever a let down?

Pilar Osorio (10:24.534)
No, for me it has been like almost the opposite because everything makes sense suddenly. For example, when I was reading I was obsessed also with Mark Twain for a while and then I had the privilege to visit his home and suddenly everything made sense. Like the sessions with the walls and the stairs and the wooden furniture. I have never seen that in Colombia. So

Jason Elkins (10:25.703)
No?

Jason Elkins (10:51.624)
Mm-hmm.

Pilar Osorio (10:52.076)
I wasn't aware of how big and majestic these things were. But once I was there, I was like, that is this is why he was like so obsessed with the descriptions and everything. So.

Jason Elkins (11:04.925)
That makes a lot of sense because your framework was growing up in Latin America. And so it's really, you you're imagining it through the lens of places you've seen or familiar with culturally. And then it really is different, but not in a letdown type of way. It's just like, wow. Now I kind of get it. Like, why was he obsessed with this or that? I remember I read

Pilar Osorio (11:10.711)
Exactly.

Pilar Osorio (11:24.194)
Exactly.

Jason Elkins (11:31.817)
I started to say it and then I realized, man, the guy's name just left my head, right? As I started to bring it up. But he'd written some books about the Everglades. Peter Matheson, Peter Matheson, I think. But anyway, he written some books about the Everglades and I read, you know, the trilogy and I was just totally fascinated. And then it was fun to go to the Everglades and look around. I'm like, yeah, kind of like it wasn't kind of what I expected, but in a good way.

Pilar Osorio (11:35.94)
You

Pilar Osorio (11:47.236)
I have no idea.

Jason Elkins (12:00.553)
Where when I go to a movie, it's almost never in a good way. I don't know. Do you ever get do you have the same thing when you read and then go to a movie or does it ever like?

Pilar Osorio (12:00.653)
Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (12:07.242)
Yeah. Yeah. But there's a reason studied for that. And is that because when you create persons in your mind, you create them from your emotional resources. So you're emotionally attached to them. For example, if you imagine like a woman, for example, I don't know, a woman in a hundred years of solitude, probably you use your feelings towards your mom, your aunts, your family members. And that is how you construct

Jason Elkins (12:17.395)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (12:32.594)
Mm-hmm.

Pilar Osorio (12:36.26)
the character in your mind. So no one is going to beat that feeling you have for those people. It's impossible.

Jason Elkins (12:38.364)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (12:43.945)
so it's more about the the connection, the emotional connection with the characters in the book probably doesn't really impact the scenery or the that's that's a different thing because you might imagine what, you know, the area would look like that the book was set. But OK, all right. That makes sense. That's cool. I think we should just change this over and just do a literature podcast because I have a feeling it would be super, super fascinating. And

Pilar Osorio (12:57.335)
Exactly.

Pilar Osorio (13:05.068)
Yeah.

But you know, I know it's a cliché, but I do feel like traveling and reading are not so different.

Jason Elkins (13:18.461)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's surprising, you know, an awful, actually I was just speaking with someone here a little bit ago for a podcast, for one of the episodes and that, you know, national geographic came up and obviously national geographics, also the visuals. think that that's a big part of, guess what I'm saying is a lot of the guests have had on and a lot of people that I know in the industry, were inspired by reading or definitely looking at national geographic keeps coming up. And I remember I had him when I was young and

Pilar Osorio (13:42.308)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (13:48.461)
I would read them. The picture is probably I'm more visual, but, so I think books just kind of open you up to, well, you should be, you're one talking. You're the one you're the communications professor, right? So anyway, yes, I do definitely think there, there is a connection and I, I suspect. Cause I've read some, you know, some things about like what percentage of people read, you know, more than one book a year. It's pretty low number.

Pilar Osorio (13:59.896)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (14:18.473)
Like, I think it's really low. And I suspect that the people that travel are really into travel probably are in, you know, in that group of people that probably read more than the average person. Would you think?

Pilar Osorio (14:18.765)
Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (14:31.874)
Yeah, yeah, I share that feeling with you.

Jason Elkins (14:34.823)
Yeah, yeah. anyway, let's see. Travel quite a bit with your parents doing that or living places and traveling. You said you travel around. You had traveled around Colombia. What was your first trip outside of Latin America?

Pilar Osorio (14:55.46)
It was New York with my family.

Jason Elkins (14:59.046)
Okay, how old are you?

Pilar Osorio (15:01.118)
I was 16.

Jason Elkins (15:02.695)
Six, okay, that's probably, that was probably pretty cool. What kind of impression did that make? Cause that's totally different.

Pilar Osorio (15:05.988)
Yeah, yeah, it was amazing. It was amazing. It was really interesting. I love the city's vibe and I was obsessed with its speed and the amount of things happening. yeah, I guess it was like a fantasy made real, like a dream.

Jason Elkins (15:26.408)
You mentioned, you mentioned this, speed of things happening and I've spent enough time in Colombia to know that if you're on a city street or in the shopping mall in Colombia, people move a little slower than they do in, in probably anywhere in the U S but especially New York. And I have to some as someone that I didn't grow up in the city, but I grew up in the States and.

Pilar Osorio (15:42.34)
Yeah!

Jason Elkins (15:55.901)
I don't think I realized how fast I moved until I came here. And immediately if I was, you know, I'm a, I'm a single guy. I might be dating somebody here and they're like, every, everybody's like, Jason, why do you walk so fast? And I'm like, is normal. But then I realized it's normal for me, but I'm constantly coming up behind people, trying to figure out how to get around them without walking into the street and getting hit by a motorcycle because they move a little slower.

Pilar Osorio (16:10.66)
No!

Jason Elkins (16:26.426)
They tend to walk shoulder to shoulder.

Pilar Osorio (16:29.244)
Yeah, and we stop in the middle of the street just to look and we don't care about people behind us. It's a complete mess.

Jason Elkins (16:35.389)
Yeah, it doesn't matter. I mean, I don't think I can remember single time when someone stopped in front of me, turned around, noticed they were in front of me, stepped aside so could go by. I don't think that's ever happened here. And the the grocery stores are the one that get me because everybody's got their cart and they will just stop with their cart right in the middle of the aisle.

Pilar Osorio (16:46.164)
No, no, we have no awareness of people around us. It's insane.

Pilar Osorio (17:02.63)
Yeah!

Jason Elkins (17:03.721)
To look at their list or to look over here and and it's really hard to get by and and you know and I say you know, come put me so come put me so you know, kind of asking to get by and they kind of look at me weird. Most maybe it's just because of I am, but I mean it's like hey dude, can't you just slow down? What are you in such hurry for?

Pilar Osorio (17:07.497)
Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (17:22.34)
And actually we have a saying that is something like if you are in a hurry wake up earlier Like it's not my business

Jason Elkins (17:34.185)
That's funny, but Colombians wake up early too.

Pilar Osorio (17:37.828)
Yeah, but we have this thing if you are in a hurry, it's your business wake up early I'm not gonna go faster because you need something

Jason Elkins (17:43.239)
Yeah, yeah, it's. And and I kind of like it, you know, it's there's so many things I love about Colombia, and sometimes when I'm feeling a little impatient, I got to remind myself this is part of why I like it here is because people are more concerned with kind of taking their time. They'll stop and have the conversation. It's you don't just walk up to somebody and ask for something. It's usually hello. How are you today? I'm very good, thanks to God. And it's like this.

Pilar Osorio (17:58.246)
Okay.

Pilar Osorio (18:04.632)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (18:12.405)
slower process. And and that's beautiful. And the fact that they have a big family with, you know, eight people in the family, and they've got a four year old that wants to stop and play on the floor with their cart, their truck in the middle of the the walkway in the shopping center. And they all just stop and you got the kid playing on the ground and the family talking and they're blocking the whole aisle and

Pilar Osorio (18:32.452)
Hehehehehaha

Pilar Osorio (18:39.652)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (18:40.905)
In a way, it's beautiful unless you're in a hurry. Actually, I saw someone at the mall the other day and I was thinking, I'm like, I don't want to be rude, but I'm this people are moving really slow. And this woman went walking past me really fast and just weaving in and out of people. And and I finally caught up with her. She she basically walked up to her and said, you're not from here. And she's like.

Pilar Osorio (19:06.564)
You

Jason Elkins (19:09.417)
She's like, no, and I can't talk. got to go. OK, perfect example, because if she had been from here, she'd know, no, I'm from here. And she would have just stopped and had a whole long conversation and offered to. Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's great because, know, it's it can be a challenge for someone from outside to make deep, meaningful relationships, partially cultural and and the language barrier. But at the same time, people make an effort to talk to you.

Pilar Osorio (19:20.708)
and be a new friend.

Jason Elkins (19:38.665)
Absolutely. You know, and it's, I was in, I guess now we're into Colombia. I was in a taxi the other day and we get waiting to pull out and this guy went by on a motorcycle and dropped a big bag full of stuff off the back of his motorcycle. And the motorcycle right behind him stopped and jumped off his bike right in the middle of the road, course.

and starts picking all this stuff up and putting it back in the bag. And this other guy that was walking down the street comes running over crosses the street and to help him put the stuff in the bag. And finally the guy who lost it, you know, took him a while to stop. didn't realize he lost it. He was walking back. So they packed it all up for him. And then a van had stopped behind the motorcycle to block traffic. So they didn't get run over. And it was like, just this beautiful thing that like, I don't think I've seen very often in the U S it's kind of like, you dropped your stuff.

You might say, hey, you dropped your stuff back there, but that's about as far as it's going to go. You know, and these guys just total strangers just stop and they just help each other out, which is really, really beautiful thing. Did they do that in Bogota because.

Pilar Osorio (20:40.652)
Yeah, it's a beautiful thing.

Bogotá is a harder city than we imagine, but we are really friendly. Like every time I ride the bus, I make a new friend, I talk to people, it's normal to see people like flattering each other's clothes, for example, like, those are beautiful shoes, those are beautiful, whatever. And I love that of our culture, that is really like, yeah, it's really friendly, it's really easy to make friends here.

Jason Elkins (20:59.027)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (21:11.325)
Yeah. Yep. I suspect, I suspect that to be the case. I think being a foreigner makes it a little bit more child. They're very friendly, but it's, you know, there's always kind of a little bit of a disconnect in my experience. I'm not saying I haven't made any friends. but that's, but it's not because they're not friendly because I would, it would probably be, you know, I mean, I've, I've been to a lot of places and I would say Colombia is by far the friendliest place I've ever been. you know, and, and sometimes, but.

Pilar Osorio (21:37.742)
Bye.

Jason Elkins (21:40.585)
But at the same time, there's like, well, they don't understand. Like I travel, I'm a full time traveler and I'm, you know, a single guy. I've spent a lot of time in Colombia. So everybody asks me like, are you here with family? I'm like, no. And they, they don't understand that because that's a family thing, right? It's like most Colombians, if you say, hey, why don't you move 1500 miles away from your family and go live in an Airbnb somewhere by yourself? They'd be like, no way. Why would I want to do that?

Pilar Osorio (21:56.65)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (22:10.915)
They might want to go to the US, but they're only going to go to the US because they have family there. And it's hard for them to get their head around why somebody would just want to live here by themselves and no family. But it's interesting. All right, enough on that. Yeah. Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (22:11.255)
Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (22:16.068)
Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (22:26.016)
Yeah, but we're really family-oriented culture. Like, actually, I was living in the States and I came back because I was missing my family like insanely. Yeah, it was like I felt like I was missing an arm, you know, it was like there's something in my body that is missing.

Jason Elkins (22:34.077)
think that happens a lot, right?

Jason Elkins (22:43.655)
Yeah. And I, and I get that cause I'll see. And usually it's people that are a little bit. Well, what I found is the people that have lived in the U S really want to talk to me because, because for one, they have maybe a little bit more English skills. So they might miss speaking English or something, but they, but they tend to, you know, they will just approach me out of the blue and start speaking English or where are you from? And, and then they are very excited to tell me that, I lived in New Jersey for a while.

Pilar Osorio (22:53.879)
Okay.

Pilar Osorio (23:01.036)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (23:13.885)
or I lived in Miami for a while and it's always for a while. And sometimes it's a long while. But then I ask him like, well, why did you, why did you come back? You know, it's all it's usually that it's, know, that's my family. Like the US is great, but you know, there's just that, that, thing. And, I get it. I mean, I keep coming back. When I came here, I thought it'd spend a month and that was three years ago. And I've spent most of the last three years here. And what happens is when I leave.

Pilar Osorio (23:19.146)
Hahaha

Pilar Osorio (23:29.187)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (23:44.009)
I miss it and I want to come back. So I get that and I wasn't born here and I don't have any family here. So I get it.

Pilar Osorio (23:46.53)
Okay.

But you have a Colombian heart, I love it.

Jason Elkins (23:52.329)
I do. So I buy his in my car is on which is like, I'm a paisa, you someone from the Medellin area in the Andes, and my heart. absolutely. So, anyway, enough about my experience, enough about my experience in Colombia. And I appreciate you sharing that. let's go back because I want to kind of continue the conversation. You went to school for literature.

Pilar Osorio (24:05.252)
We're trapped.

Jason Elkins (24:19.771)
So what did you do with that and how were you able to tie that into what you're doing now involved in tourism?

Pilar Osorio (24:27.308)
OK, so when I was I was studying literature, of course, the thing that we studied a lot was communications. And because of that, I ended up teaching communications in a business school, like in a really small college here in Bogota. And there I I had to learn like how to communicate business idea, business ideas. And it was amazing to learn it. But something was missing.

something like in terms of purpose and like impact. And then I met ancestral owner who's Maria Heliga Hara. And it was funny because at the beginning I was just a traveler. I was like a client, a user of her company. And I was obsessed from the first day, which her work is amazing. Her purpose is beautiful because she co-creates the experiences with people.

She's thinking more about connections than travelers, travels. So it's really, really beautiful. But I saw that she wasn't really good at explaining what ancestral was and like the spirit of ancestral. Yeah, and she knows it. Yeah, but you know, like she had a palace and she was talking about a little house and it was like...

Jason Elkins (25:38.983)
You know she might listen to this, right? Okay. Well, that's good. So we're not telling her anything she didn't know. Okay.

Pilar Osorio (25:53.816)
to show off your palas. This is fantastic. And you're like going so little with your ideas and experience.

Jason Elkins (25:56.489)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (25:59.997)
Why do you think, I think that's not a unique thing or that's not something that's unique to her. I think we, you probably know this better than I do. I think there's a lot of operators that really care about what they're doing, but don't almost, don't know if it's like a, they don't want to brag. Like, is there something there that's like, I don't want to be too big. I don't want people to think I'm full of it. And so I'm just going to kind of.

Pilar Osorio (26:24.407)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (26:29.129)
play small. to limit that, what do you think?

Pilar Osorio (26:30.564)
Yeah, and to be shy and scared of maybe if I show off a lot and it's not what people expect, it's not gonna be good for me. But I don't think this is the case with Ancestral because it's about talking the spirit of the company. And I guess at the beginning the work with her was to talk about the spirit, like, why are you doing what you do? Like, what is moving you?

Jason Elkins (26:40.509)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (26:51.273)
Mm-hmm.

Pilar Osorio (27:00.676)
what is moving you and it was amazing that between her ideas and my experience as a travel we were able to find that fair point of what is what she wanted and what she was doing. She was taking for granted a lot of things. For example, once I was in Orinoco, that is like this huge river in the middle of nowhere between Colombia and Venezuela. We had been in a boat for three days.

really exhausted. The sun was crazy. And we were in the middle of the river and out of the blue there was a rose. And she offered us like a rose with some papayas and some fruits and these beautiful leaves. And she was like, obviously you were tired. You need like some wine in the middle of the jungle. And I am like, no, that is not normal. That is beautiful of your company. like those

Jason Elkins (27:56.169)
Mm-hmm.

so it's just kind of underplays it like it's yeah. That's what I heard anyway is maybe just kind of underplaying it like, it's no big deal. No, it is a big deal, right?

Pilar Osorio (27:59.541)
little detail.

Pilar Osorio (28:08.394)
Yeah, it's fantastic. It's thoughtful, it's beautiful, it's like you feel like the queen in the middle of the Amazon. It's fantastic. Yeah. So basically what we did was like to make her notice those details that make her company like beautiful and exceptional.

Jason Elkins (28:16.297)
huh.

Jason Elkins (28:27.505)
Mm-hmm. that's, that's very cool. You'd mentioned that you were also really a client of hers kind of early on. Do you think, well, I'm curious because there's other people out there that are communications majors, have degrees in communications and work for businesses of all types. I'm curious your interest in travel and tourism. How important is that for the work that you do?

Pilar Osorio (28:33.688)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (28:56.665)
I'm not sure I'm asking that you're the communications person. Maybe you can help me. Maybe you can help me reword the question. But I think where I'm going with that is do you think that that interest and that experience with travel has helped you dramatically to help communicate the story of a travel company? Experience company, right?

Pilar Osorio (28:59.502)
Okay.

Pilar Osorio (29:11.307)
Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (29:14.892)
Yeah, do think. Yeah, I do. I do think because I've traveled. I've been lucky and I've traveled a lot. So I have a lot of references and I know what to expect from a company and what is like really surprising for my company. So.

So I guess my experience before knowing Ancestral and the fact that I was there just to experience gave me like a lot of ideas of why this was different. And I guess with every company I've worked with, like with makeup companies and these kinds of things, I try first to be the client and have like, I have my own journal of experience.

Jason Elkins (29:50.43)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (30:00.126)
Mm-hmm.

Pilar Osorio (30:03.948)
So then when I meet with the people, with company and they tell me things, I can compare what they're showing or they want to show and what the user really experiences.

Jason Elkins (30:16.189)
really experiences and that's important. And you also mentioned that really kind of went this right. mentioned you were looking for something that was a little bit more purposeful, you know, as far as the types of companies that you were working with, which led you into working with, you know, ancestral, maybe others. are you only, do you, so what's in your mix now? Are you doing a lot more of the travel side?

Pilar Osorio (30:26.286)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (30:44.933)
stuff or do you still do some of the other? Just tell me what's going on.

Pilar Osorio (30:49.188)
I'm doing ancestral that is with the traveling and but these super responsible traveling agencies that is community oriented and sustainability oriented. I have all I am also working with this group of entrepreneur and CEOs and CEO and all these kind of people that they're mentoring little companies in Colombia in how we are becoming like this.

Jason Elkins (31:11.133)
Mm-hmm.

Pilar Osorio (31:18.882)
big companies and helping them with financial strategies and all these kind of things. So I'm teaching them how to mentor, how to use communications to be great mentors. So there are these big guys in the companies that are going to help small companies. So I think that fills my heart because it's a way to help those companies in some way.

Jason Elkins (31:42.441)
And is that a variety of different types of companies or are we?

Pilar Osorio (31:46.916)
Yeah, there were different companies like there's like. Yeah, like they're small companies, but they're like 1520 in different areas.

Jason Elkins (31:54.942)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (31:58.693)
Okay. So not, not necessarily tourism based or sustainability based or anything like that. I mean, some of them, I'm sure.

Pilar Osorio (32:02.93)
No.

No, but almost all of them have some social impact and that's why they were selected by these mentors to receive this help. But I'm teaching the mentors how to communicate with these companies.

Jason Elkins (32:11.369)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (32:14.991)
OK. Nice.

Jason Elkins (32:21.437)
This is off topic, but what's the biggest challenge with CEOs, CEOs, these leaders? What's the biggest challenge for you? Keeping in mind that they might listen to this.

Pilar Osorio (32:32.596)
I guess, I guess always with the humans, egos. We're humans, egos are hard. But you know, egos are not about just CEOs. When I was working with Ancestral at the beginning, the local, the local hosts, they also have like their egos because we have, we have fixed narratives about who we are and it's hard to move from there.

Jason Elkins (32:38.833)
Yeah, he goes.

Yeah.

Jason Elkins (32:56.413)
Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (33:02.328)
I think it's human thing.

Jason Elkins (33:03.561)
And I think that tourism is an interesting thing. I'm going to try and convey this, but let's say you're a guide in a small. Trying to think of where would be a good example, let's just say you're a guide in a small village in the Amazon. And every once in a while, clients, clients from the US show up and you're seen walking around town with these people from the US that are dressed differently.

Pilar Osorio (33:20.632)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (33:32.089)
And the guide is almost like, look at me. I don't want to speak for them, but I've seen it happen. And it's kind of like, I've got access to these people that my neighbors would love to have access. Maybe there's some financial stuff going along with that. Maybe they make better tips than if they were doing other things. All that type of stuff comes into play. that guide now is almost kind of like, I don't know.

Pilar Osorio (33:38.56)
Exactly!

Jason Elkins (33:59.977)
I know if I want to use the word celebrity, but it becomes part of their identity, right? And then that ego. And then when somebody else in the village decides, I want to be a guide as well, then you've got the, wait a minute, no, I'm the man here. And I remember I managed a fishing lodge, a fly fishing and scuba diving resort in Belize. And our guides would come out to meet the guests on Sunday morning.

Pilar Osorio (34:06.06)
Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (34:14.989)
I'm

Jason Elkins (34:29.373)
with their uniforms, very just kind of conservative and kind of, they just kind of fit the picture. They look like fishing guides, if that makes any sense. But then at the end of the week, when they get on the boat to go back to the city, the guides would come out of their guide quarters wearing their gold chains and their fancy Nike shoes and their cool baseball caps, because they're going back to the city. And it was like,

Pilar Osorio (34:50.34)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (34:58.953)
That's not usual. That's not a common way to dress in Belize. It's like these guides, these guides made more money than a lot of people in Belize. That's about that way. And they kind of that was part of their identity. Like, hey, I've been out working hard and look at me. Look how good I look. And these guys just had such a big attitude when they were going back to town. When they come out the beginning of the week, they were very humble and very, you know, kind of modest with the clients and everything. But then, man, when they went back to town, it was like.

Pilar Osorio (35:02.775)
Okay.

Pilar Osorio (35:13.188)
you

Pilar Osorio (35:21.636)
Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (35:25.964)
Yes.

Jason Elkins (35:26.569)
I'm a guide, work at Turn of Flats, look at me. So yeah, you're right, ego is not limited to anything really.

Pilar Osorio (35:34.466)
Yeah, it's not related. I guess the ego of the guy in the Amazon is the same ego of the Coca-Cola CEO. It's the same ego. Same thing.

Jason Elkins (35:44.573)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, you're right. So, okay, so what's the biggest challenge? I don't know what percentage of the business for Ancestral, I mean, I know a little bit about what they do out having conversations with you. Are they dealing with a lot of US clients?

Pilar Osorio (36:04.662)
Yeah, not the main client, but there are a lot.

Jason Elkins (36:11.325)
Where does the majority of the clients come

Pilar Osorio (36:14.212)
Spain, France, Europe basically.

Jason Elkins (36:15.677)
Jason Elkins (36:20.039)
So what kind of challenges does that present to a communications advisor with multiple languages, different cultures? How do you do that?

Pilar Osorio (36:24.386)
That's a lot.

Pilar Osorio (36:30.76)
The biggest challenge is translator in the regions is the biggest thing. But it's also beautiful because sometimes in these really remote areas in the country, there is one or two guys who speak English and they feel like it makes no sense to speak English in the middle of the Amazon. But suddenly they're loaded with work. And that has also been beautiful for the communities, for example.

In the Amazon, was with an indigenous community and they wanted to bring an English teacher so kids could begin to have more tourist ideas about building companies in the area and owning their companies by speaking English and being able to welcome international guests. I don't know.

Jason Elkins (37:25.445)
Is is the ability to speak English? I'm imagining and just kind of what I've seen. mean, I was in the Amazon not too long ago as well and. The people that speak English there really seem to want everybody to know they speak English. I guess. Like not just the visitors, but also everybody like I'm pretty sure like that might be part of why sometimes they want to walk up to me and start a conversation with me. Not to have a conversation with me, but because.

Pilar Osorio (37:40.788)
Yeah. Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (37:54.596)
to show up.

Jason Elkins (37:55.209)
Because the cute girls sitting over there on the park bench might overhear it. It does.

Pilar Osorio (38:02.02)
But it makes sense because those guys those guys are the one who are gonna be making the businesses I mean make sense

Jason Elkins (38:08.433)
Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's that's pretty cool. So but then as far as you figuring out how to convey the message to the potential clients like from France, like French travelers tend to be looking for something different. They tend to know different patterns. You probably know this better than I do, as opposed to maybe a client from the US. So I'm just like, how do you figure all that stuff out?

Pilar Osorio (38:34.5)
Yeah. But I guess the narrative that I tried to convey with Ancestral is like 100 % honesty about how the company works. So it is not a narrative that is fixed according to whom we're talking to. But we're more like, and I know some communication people would say like that is a mistake. But

Jason Elkins (38:45.609)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (38:51.699)
Okay.

Pilar Osorio (39:00.836)
I do feel like the authenticity in Ancestral is like the most important value and almost everywhere like authenticity and being just true to your values and to your and why are we doing what we're doing.

Jason Elkins (39:07.921)
Okay. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (39:20.221)
So can you write, like if you want to write a message, maybe for the website or an email or whatever, are you able to more or less craft it in Spanish and then just make sure that the translation is pretty spot on? Is that kind of what I'm hearing as opposed to we know French people don't care about air conditioning. We know Americans do care about air conditioning. we're going to, our US audience, we're going to make sure that relaxing your

cool air conditioned cabana and realized that the French students or the French travelers probably have something different that's a priority.

Pilar Osorio (40:00.868)
I don't know about people who do that, I don't like it a lot because it's a source of frustration. Because you can mention things and everything should be mentioned, but what is really important should be always what is really important. So yeah, because perhaps, I don't know, the AC, for example, your expectations of AC is so different from a French guy or

Jason Elkins (40:18.355)
Okay, I love it. Yeah, I love what you're saying. That makes sense. Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (40:30.36)
guy from Australia. But I don't want to lie to you saying like, we have everything you need. No, this is what we have and what we are. And I guess it's like baiting, you know? Exactly, it's like baiting. You're not going to pretend to be someone who you're not because that is going to be only a terrible heartbroken heart. Makes no sense. Exactly.

Jason Elkins (40:40.809)
And let them figure out if you have what they need, right? Yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (40:54.213)
Every every two weeks.

Pilar Osorio (40:58.88)
So yeah, it's better to be true to yourself always.

Jason Elkins (41:04.105)
All right. All right. And what about, do you help with the messaging and the training for like your providers, here in Colombia? Cause that I would think that that's equally important as how do you communicate to your guides or to your local tour operators? or do you get involved in that?

Pilar Osorio (41:23.652)
What I do is that I really like organize the storytelling. What is our story? How do we tell them? Why are we doing what we do and how we express this? I do use like a list of vocabulary that are like those keywords that are 100 % related to the heart of the company. For example, when I was working with this makeup company, they were thinking about...

Jason Elkins (41:45.705)
Mm-hmm.

Pilar Osorio (41:53.174)
embellecer, like making life more beautiful and making people show what they feel. That was their corvallis. So they were talking about quinceañeras. OK, this quinceañera wants to show how she sees herself. And that was like the list of vocabulary was about being true to yourself, authenticity, show what I have in my heart, and those kind of key sentences that everyone in the company should be able to.

Jason Elkins (42:17.705)
Mm-hmm.

Pilar Osorio (42:20.64)
makes according to their personalities and their and the context of the communication. But they did understand, like, how the narrative and the vocabulary of the company works.

Jason Elkins (42:32.551)
So does that go to the level of we work with a guide, let's go back to the, no, let's not go to the Amazon. Let's go to the Pacific coast. We've got a guide on the Pacific coast that we use. I don't know if he's an employee, but you use them a lot. And he greets a new group of guests that he's going to be with for a few days. Are you working like with him?

to help him figure out how to share the narrative of, you know, maybe even as something as simple as, Hey, welcome. This is why we're here and this is why it's important. And this is what you're, should expect over the next few days. You help at that level crafting the message as well. Cool.

Pilar Osorio (43:11.222)
Yeah, yeah, so he knows, so he knows that, for example, with ancestral is respectful community oriented tourism experiences are co created. So it's not like someone in Bogotá saying what to do, but the communities have made proposal of what we want to be seen like this. And what is beautiful is that as they're really convinced of the narrative is natural because they understand where it comes from. So.

Jason Elkins (43:39.655)
Mm-hmm.

Pilar Osorio (43:40.996)
And I do have the feeling and I hope I'm not lying, but the process of doing this communications tragedy also makes them like, remember, why are they really working there? That is not only just for the money, but there's a more transcendental or meaningful reason to be working for this company and not the other one.

Jason Elkins (44:01.063)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (44:06.313)
Right. OK, I got that. Shift gears a little bit. I just want to ask you, because you're probably this maybe the best opportunity for me to ask someone that can give me that can give me a good answer. What's the diff? What is the difference between a communications advisor, consultant, whatever you want to or a copywriter?

Pilar Osorio (44:16.74)
Okay, I hope I can.

Pilar Osorio (44:30.08)
Wow.

I am not sure. I'm a communication consultant. How I understand it and how I do it is that I work with vocabulary storytelling and but also going into the core bodies of the company so they can make decisions. They don't depend on me to make a communicative decisions once they have all the materials and everything they need. Sometimes they do ask me that they're not.

Jason Elkins (44:33.746)
From your perspective, I'm just curious because I don't know the answer.

Pilar Osorio (45:04.066)
It's more of creating a language, a company's language, you know, it's like, this is your company's language.

Jason Elkins (45:10.109)
So maybe what I'm hearing is maybe copywriting is a part of the equation, but not totally, you know, yeah, the message that we're trying to convey, what we're trying to communicate about our brand or our company, which is probably going to require someone to sit down and write something at some point that's going to go on a website or into an email. But you could probably manage the communications. And if your copywriter understands the story,

then the copywriter can write the email that goes out. You don't necessarily need to write it because the copywriter understands the story. that a decent way to put that?

Pilar Osorio (45:50.116)
Yeah, that's correct. they might and they might play to play. I what I like about having like a solid structure is that they might like play what is with what is happening in social media, mimis and these kind of things. So they can adapt the narrative into those little things that are happening and they can become like more trendy or whatever they need. But respecting them.

Yeah, the language we've created.

Jason Elkins (46:20.773)
OK, all right. That's very cool. Again, like I said, I want to take advantage of this opportunity to ask some questions because I'm doing I do some copywriting for clients that don't have a communications advisor. Maybe I maybe I can connect you with them.

Pilar Osorio (46:24.292)
Ask everything.

Pilar Osorio (46:35.876)
How do you do that? I can't imagine that.

Jason Elkins (46:40.521)
Well, it's, you know, they're generally smaller clients that had a website or already have a website that somebody put some words on. And then, you know, me, who's not a not a trained communications expert, tries to figure out, OK, well, I understand their market and most of them, their audience is US travelers that worked in tourism for a long time with US guests and

Pilar Osorio (46:48.321)
Okay.

Pilar Osorio (46:58.299)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (47:10.055)
So then just try and figure out the best I can at my level is how to figure out how to, you know, at least make their websites easy to navigate. And so people can find the information they're looking for, but it's, and I'm not afraid to say this. know somebody who's going to listen to this. That's a potential client of mine. I'm not a communications expert, but I know one.

Pilar Osorio (47:14.188)
Okay.

Pilar Osorio (47:33.213)
Hahaha

Who can help? We can be a great team!

Jason Elkins (47:39.817)
I see some opportunities to collaborate here. So I'm really, really happy we had this conversation. I can't believe we've been chatting for quite a while already, covered quite a few things. But there's a few things that we probably didn't cover. So I'm curious, what should I have asked you? What do we still need to cover before we wrap it up? I want to be respectful of your time. I know your dog's going to want to go for a walk here pretty soon.

Pilar Osorio (47:44.062)
Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (48:04.203)
Okay

Yeah, he's the boss. Let's be frank.

Jason Elkins (48:08.009)
You

Jason Elkins (48:19.177)
Do you want to share? I mean, we talked a bit about ancestral, but I suspect you have a pretty good elevator pitch for ancestral that if you want to share. Okay.

Pilar Osorio (48:19.566)
There's something.

Pilar Osorio (48:27.748)
But I don't want to talk about that now. guess my suggestion would be like, go to ancestral speech and take a look to the amazing work we do there. Not from a communications perspective, from traveling's perspective. But I do feel like it would be important to think about the importance of communication. Like you can have a fantastic idea and you think you're going to change the world.

If you can't communicate it correctly, there's no way someone's going to believe you. I guess what I love the most about this job is seeing people empowered with what they have done. It's like, I'm just there like a bridge connecting you to your words, but I'm doing almost nothing, just showing you the path of how to go from your ideas into words.

Therefore to people we're gonna love your business and I think that's the beautiful thing of communication and literature and words that they are always connecting us and that is what makes life something beautiful to connect

Jason Elkins (49:40.935)
Yeah, absolutely. And I love just the I don't know, maybe the matter what you mentioned earlier about you've built this big palace, but you're sharing the world, your little house. And I'm not saying people need to have a big house. This is not about houses. I get it. You know, it's like people put their blood, sweat and tears in the things that are important to them. And if you can't, especially if it's any sort of business.

Pilar Osorio (49:53.227)
Yeah

Yeah.

Jason Elkins (50:09.991)
You work your butt off, but if you can't communicate to your audience or to your potential clientele why you're doing it, why it's important that they should buy it. I'm going to use the word buy or go on the trip or whatever. Then it's almost kind of sad because I mean, we all know business people that have spent 30, 40 years just grinding it, working six or seven days a week, 10 hours a day and never really get anywhere.

Pilar Osorio (50:28.258)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (50:40.049)
And then at the end of 40 years, they've got this business that their kid doesn't want and they don't know what to do with it and they can't sell it because they can't sell it because they didn't do a good job communicating what it was. And they're probably still not doing a good job communicating what it is. So one day they just lock the door and put a sign on it and they're done. And that's kind of sad, right? Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (51:02.358)
It's really sad. It's really sad. It's a live stream just erasing because you didn't find the words and it's really sad. Yeah. Thanks.

Jason Elkins (51:09.533)
Yeah. Okay. I can see why you do the work you do. That's I, I really, really liked that. Cause that's cause I, for me, it's about the connections with people. That's why we're doing the podcast talking about people's stories and, without connection, none of it really matters. in my mind and what is a huge part of connection is what communication. I love it.

Pilar Osorio (51:27.747)
Yeah.

Pilar Osorio (51:33.856)
Exactly. It's a really good way to connect.

Jason Elkins (51:39.697)
Yeah, yeah. I'm happy that we were able to that we connected. I guess it was almost a couple months ago and that we were able to connect here and have this conversation for others that I trust will listen and create some connections. And we've got some information about you in the show notes and a link, probably the link over to your LinkedIn page. So if anybody wants to connect with you through there and I look forward to doing some collaboration projects, I already have some ideas.

Pilar Osorio (51:43.844)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (52:07.721)
that we can work on. So, Pilar, thank you very much. Appreciate having you on the show and I look forward to seeing you probably in person next time.

Pilar Osorio (52:08.132)
Please and-

Pilar Osorio (52:16.172)
Yeah, I hope so. Thanks for having me. And this has been like a really lovely conversation. Thanks a lot.

Jason Elkins (52:23.273)
Thank you.