Adventure Travel with Richard McColl - Colombia Calling Podcast

Richard McColl
Colombia Jack of All Trades!
Colombia Calling Podcast

Richard is a long-time freelance foreign correspondent based in Colombia, host of the Colombia Calling podcast and the LatinNews podcast, author of Colombia at a Crossroads and owner of two small guesthouses in Mompos...in addition to being a husband to Alba and father to two small boys.

summary
In this episode, Jason Elkins speaks with Richard McColl, a passionate advocate for Colombia and host of the Colombia Calling podcast. They explore Richard's journey from England to Colombia, discussing the cultural influences that shaped his love for Latin America. The conversation delves into the differences in travel perspectives between Europeans and Americans, the impact of language on travel experiences, and the evolving reputation of Colombia. Richard shares insights from his career in journalism and the importance of storytelling in understanding the complexities of Colombian society. The episode concludes with a discussion about the Colombia Calling podcast and Richard's ongoing projects in the region.

takeaways

• Richard McColl's journey to Colombia began during his university years.
• Cultural influences from his family shaped Richard's love for Latin America.
• Travel perspectives differ significantly between Europeans and Americans.
• Language plays a crucial role in enhancing travel experiences.
• Colombia's reputation has improved significantly over the years.
• Curiosity drives many travelers to explore new cultures.
• Richard's career in journalism has been intertwined with his love for Colombia.
• The Colombia Calling podcast serves as a platform for diverse conversations about Colombia.
• Richard emphasizes the importance of understanding both the good and bad aspects of Colombia.
• Engaging with locals enhances the travel experience and fosters deeper connections.

Learn more about Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Marketing and join our private community to get episode updates, special access to our guests, and exclusive adventure travel offers on our website.

Transcript

Jason Elkins (00:01.319)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the big world made small podcast for the adventure traveler today. I'm super excited. I've got a fellow, I guess, Colombiaphile, which is somebody who loves Colombia. I'm not sure if I made that word up, but I think I've heard it. And I've also got a fellow podcaster on the show. And some of you may know his name. He's got the Colombia calling podcast. So we've got Richard McColl on. He is the Colombia Jack of all trades is how he, that's his official title, I guess. So.

I'm super excited to have this conversation. As many of you know, I'm passionate about Colombia and so is Richard. So Richard, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here.

Richard McColl (00:38.818)
Thank you very much. It's a real pleasure to be here. It's always lovely to be on other podcasts.

Jason Elkins (00:44.221)
Yes, absolutely. It's and it's, interesting because I've been doing the podcast for about a year and spent a lot most of that time in Colombia and your name has been on my radar. It's familiar with your show. And then I spoke with someone else. They said, you know, you should talk to Richard. was like, geez, I don't know what I was thinking. So I'm happy that happy that we made that made that connection. So Richard, where, where do you live?

Richard McColl (01:00.75)
Thank you.

Richard McColl (01:04.959)
No.

Well, I live in Bogota full time, but we come and go between Bogota and Montpos, a small town inland in the Caribbean coast, but I live in Bogota full time. I like the big city. I like the anonymity of the capital that I can just do what I need to do and get by.

Jason Elkins (01:25.085)
Yeah, I get that completely. I'm just up the road here in Medellin and Richard, wanna, we're gonna talk a lot about Colombia. I know we are, but I really wanna kind of understand you. What causes somebody to, cause obviously you weren't born and raised in Colombia. What causes somebody to make that leap? And I think the best way to get there is to kind of hear your story. So I'm not sure how far back we need to go.

Richard McColl (01:43.214)
You

Richard McColl (01:50.114)
Whoa!

Jason Elkins (01:52.157)
But let's go back as far as you think necessary. then if I, and then I may ask some probing questions, go back even a little further. So where did it all start for you?

Richard McColl (02:00.666)
Well, let's say that the bug was planted in my third year of university, in my undergrad. So we're looking back in 99, around then. So we're going back quite a ways. I was studying at a university called Exeter in the southwest of England. I was studying humanities, the languages and so on. And I got a scholarship

Jason Elkins (02:15.849)
Okay, okay, and where was that? Where were you then?

Richard McColl (02:27.394)
In England, you study languages in your third year, you get to go abroad and become, you know, a full immersion and, well, try and get fluency. And, I managed to get a scholarship to end up in Guatemala. And that was something really special. And, actually there's, there's more to it than that. My father had lived for almost a decade in Brazil in the sixties.

My stepmother had lived in Brazil, but not in the same place. She'd live in Sao Paulo. My father lived in Rio. My mother loved Mexico. And so as a child, I was brought up with this sort of knowledge of it, even though being born and raised in London, and then getting that third year abroad in Guatemala and working as an auxiliary teacher in a private school, I was just like, you know what?

this part of the world really, it really appeals to me. And I started studying the history and the literature. after a while and journalism, I became sort of like an expert in Latin America for various outlets and so on. being based in London meant that that wasn't really the field of expertise that they wanted. If you're based in London, they want, well, I guess,

Commonwealth, former empire stories. And after a while, jobbing here and there, as you know, I'm not in the right place. I can go this alone. And I left. And I left and haven't looked back.

Jason Elkins (03:48.029)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (03:57.971)
Derek, very cool. Hey, if, Richard, we gotta go back a little further because you said some things about your family that really intrigued me and I'm trying to figure out how does a family from England become so immersed in the Spanish culture? I'm not, I guess my first question was like your dad, why was he living in Latin America for, you said 10 years. How did that come about?

Richard McColl (04:06.786)
Hahaha

Richard McColl (04:22.25)
Yeah, well, my dad, my dad's Canadian. He's passed on a long time ago now, but he was Canadian and he was a geophysicist geologist and got a job working for the, guess you'd say the dictatorship in Brazil in exploring exploration of oil fields and so on. So he was transferred with his young family. That's his first family was transferred down to Brazil.

and he lived there for almost a decade. in fact, so one of my half sisters is was born in Brazil. So this is a long time ago then. It was just well before I was even, you know, a consideration. And so after. Yeah, we see she was she was from London, born and raised Londoner, and she had left and emigrated to Los Angeles as a young lady.

Jason Elkins (05:05.587)
And then your mom was in New Mexico, you imagine.

Richard McColl (05:20.526)
again in the 60s, 70s, if I'm not mistaken, was a secretary at Universal Studios because they wanted British secretaries who are very well trained. There's a story there, it's her name, again, she's passed on, but her name's Leslie Nielsen. So just like the actor from The Naked Gun, but she was more famous in that period at Universal Studios than he was. So he had to get his mail off her.

Jason Elkins (05:45.385)
Okay.

Richard McColl (05:50.328)
But that said, she hitchhiked Mexico in the 60s with a friend and got into all sorts of scrapes. it left something. It left something there. It left something, a real love for the region. we would go back when I was young. We would go to Mexico a lot. So it sort of all comes in. And Mexico was, I mean, it's exotic.

But can you imagine it back then? was truly exotic.

Jason Elkins (06:20.301)
yeah, a young woman hitchhiking across Mexico. And so, which brings up the conversation because there's something in the personalities of the people that do this type of thing, because most people don't realistically. I mean, you and I are here in Colombia. Your business is to engage with maybe expats that are coming in. And, and so you're really connected with that. But in reality, the vast majority of the world doesn't do these types of things.

You know, most people stay where they were born and generally generationally and their friend network for most of their life is, you know, people that they went to school with that, that type of thing. And maybe this over generalization, but, but it brings up like, what is it about personalities and some families that just have that gene? don't know if it's the wanderlust or just that sense of, you know what, I'm going to go do it on my own. don't need to stay where I'm at. If I see something more interesting, I'm to move towards it.

Have you given much thought to that? that something?

Richard McColl (07:21.622)
Yeah, I mean, I consider things a lot. In my family, we restored a house in Portugal when I was young or two. And my mother restored a place in France and we did restorations of houses to sell on in London and so on. So the whole issue of actually sort of...

a permanent home. think I moved house almost every year and a half up until I was 18 or 19. So that wasn't that great attachment, first and foremost, to like a physical set home. This is where I lived and grew up and everyone this is not my childhood home. I could walk you through part of London and point out eight different places I lived as a child. So I guess there's that. But also

You sort of think about it, especially if you're from, I don't know if it's changed much. I've been away a long time, but in England, there's people who always sort of shrug and question why you'd want to do something different. It's not, well, at least in my mind, there wasn't the sort of attitude of doing something else. A lot of my friends, people who I would have grown up with sort of banking and lawyers and so on, very stable, very easy.

But I went to a private school in which my closest friends were from all over the world or have moved over the world. So we were kind of a bunch of people that were, I guess you're saying we're transient. One of my great friends, he was of Lebanese, Canadian descent and grew up time in Saudi Arabia and then moved to Canada. Another great friend was

half Italian, half Thai and grew up and he's now back in Bangkok. Another friend was Greek and sort of grew up amongst restaurants somewhere. I think it was in, I can't remember where, but that sort of thing. And now another friend has moved over to Australia. So there's sort of an attitude amongst the people I was best friends with was always this bit more, wouldn't you say adventurous or so on.

Jason Elkins (09:20.969)
Mm-hmm.

Richard McColl (09:37.964)
Which is great, you know, and I think that helps a lot is that you're not sort of cutting links. Of course, back in the day, it wasn't that common to do it. I think things have got a bit easier now. We can be sort of, let's say, location independent professionals. You can work remotely. But back in the day, it was a plunge, wasn't it? I mean, it was really something to do and different. think, obviously,

Born and raised in London. I just, wanted something more. Don't get me wrong, the culture, the, I love the city. I love it very much, but I just wanted something different from what I was seeing as being the norm of the sort of routine, commuting, paying for heating bills.

Jason Elkins (10:32.297)
No, I'm with you completely and I think it sounds like you had the benefit of being around other people that were kind of... Well, let me ask you this. Do you think you were around people that were like you or do you think that being around them influenced you to be kind of that way? Or a combination.

Richard McColl (10:54.092)
I think there's a bit of both. I think there's a bit of both there. I think we obviously sort of gravitated to one another because I would still say that my closest long-term friends are those who have gone elsewhere and done other things or even stayed in the UK but done more off-the-wall stuff, created their own businesses and so on. I think we are...

there's a sort of network around us, think, I think also you have to come with somewhat of that attitude as well.

Jason Elkins (11:33.235)
Right, right. Are you, have you spent much time looking into like personality types and is that, is that something that's on your radar screen? Because, or maybe I would say maybe like ADD, I definitely, I'm sure I've got ADHD. And I think that for me, the traveling and the novelty and the just putting myself in an area where I'm not sure I'm going to see something new, maybe not every day, but it seems like it. So I don't know that that.

comes up sometimes when I'm having conversations with folks, but.

Richard McColl (12:06.134)
I don't know if I'm ADHD. just think I don't think I've ever been tested for it or anyone has said that I've ever had ADHD. What I really like is investigating and researching and finding something new, something overlooked. these often end up being things that are of no economic viability for me.

Jason Elkins (12:25.928)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (12:33.609)
Okay, I'm not going to say you have ADHD, but it sounds familiar.

Richard McColl (12:35.15)
And infuriating to my wife, what are you doing today? I'm investigating something that piqued my curiosity.

Jason Elkins (12:48.393)
You know, it's, it's one thing kind of kind of tied to that that I'd come across somewhere that it was like, you know, we call it ADHD, but it's it's not necessarily. It's something that worked really well back in the hunter gatherer days. You know, if you were curious and open to exploring and were willing to leave the village and you noticed things in the, in the jungle that got your attention, you might be more likely to come.

Richard McColl (13:05.517)
Hmm

Jason Elkins (13:16.445)
come back with meat for the village and it was a great adaptation. But that same adaptation didn't work so well when we were farming fields and we, know, and your job was to get up early in the morning and go out and do the same thing every day for four months until you get your harvest. So I like to just think of it as kind of a different adaptation. And I see that with people that I, you know, that I interview here on the show and have working, have been worked in the adventure tourism space for a long time. It seems to attract that person that that's

Richard McColl (13:31.31)
Yeah

Jason Elkins (13:46.267)
is curious. think curiosity is the one, you you mentioned kind of exploring things that maybe have no economic viability, but it's just that constant curiosity about things. And when you're curious, it's really hard to kind of sit still in the same house for 20, 30 years going to the same job and driving the same car. so anyway, I just I don't know where that came from.

Richard McColl (13:51.405)
Yeah.

Richard McColl (14:09.016)
Yeah.

So I might change my title from, yeah, Jack of all trades to hunter gatherer. I quite like that. It gives me a wild man thing. But it's like when you're over here, and you know this as well, it was explained to me or seen by someone actually I've met recently. I understand you, these immigrants to other places.

Jason Elkins (14:18.217)
You're there.

Richard McColl (14:35.426)
I have about six fishing rods cast at the same time and waits for the float to bob on whichever one. And that kind of works for my business strategy as well.

Jason Elkins (14:45.021)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. I'm if someone would look at my life, I actually worked in the fishing business. I get it completely. And I think that was, you know, I was a fly fishing guide and really into the fly fishing for a long time. And what was great about that for me, it was so stimulating for me because fly fishing is very, you know, you're you're actively you're moving, you're pursuing, you're constantly trying to figure things out. And, and it was always just

Richard McColl (14:51.214)
Well, there you go.

Jason Elkins (15:12.457)
You know, that was the exact stimulation I needed. And I get that from, get that from traveling. I'm also curious. So I, because I think I've got a great opportunity to have a conversation with somebody that deals with, I mean, Colombia is a unique place. it has some stereotypes around it, both positive and maybe not so positive if I were to use that word. And you're dealing a lot, or I believe you are correct me if I'm wrong, you're dealing a lot with people from outside of Colombia that are interested in Colombia.

coming to Colombia, visiting Colombia, just the nature of your podcast is really to talk about Colombia to, you know, I'll let you discuss what that's all about. But I guess my question is, do you see differences in, so for example, the people that maybe are living in London that are interested in Colombia or the people that are living in Canada or the people that are living in other places around the world, do you notice a

Difference in the way they approach Colombia based on where they're from and what does that say about kind of their personality or mindsets? I know this is stereotype. I'm not I didn't think this question up at a time So hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say

Richard McColl (16:26.518)
I know exactly what you're saying. For example, a week ago or so I gave an hour, hour and a half long lecture to 12 Americans over here. Something I do is give a sort of politics lecture and what's going on. they were like, things have changed immensely. And I always say this and I should...

It was something a friend of mine said, who's also an analyst. He said, and he's Colombian. said, 50 Colombia today is 15, 15 years ago. It's better today than it was 15 years ago. And Colombia 15 years ago is better than it was 15 years prior to that. And I was like, that's why you are here because there has been an improvement. But Colombia does have a justifiably dreadful reputation, just as it has a unjustifiably dreadful reputation. I mean, both can be balanced off.

You and I sitting in absolute comfort, either in Medellin or in Vigalo, and I'm in a very nice part of Bogota, and we travel around the country and so on. But talking about different nationalities or regions that treat Colombia differently, we opened up our hotel, the first one, in 2008 in Montpost, and immediately had French and German people coming through. Immediately. They've never had any fear.

of Colombia's. Colombia's great, an adventure, something authentic. And they would come and they would come and have no issue with it. And then we had a trickles of other nationalities. again, from the sort of, I would say, percentile of the population that's a bit more adventurous, who had been all over Latin America. know, not Colombia is not the first place you go to.

People have been to Mexico, probably been to other places, Costa Rica, probably been to Peru. And Colombia sort of then falls into their lap because they've heard about it from other people on the road. You know, if you really want to see something great, you should go to Colombia. that, it's fascinating to me how that then becomes, it's like, wow, we'd never thought of going to Colombia. And then they look at it and then they get in and they're like, why didn't we think of this all those years ago?

Richard McColl (18:43.918)
But for example, Europeans are not as concerned about coming to Colombia. Brits a little more. It's a curious thing. don't really know. I would put a lot of it down to it. Just the culture of travel. We're so close to so many places that you could just get out and go.

Jason Elkins (18:51.505)
Why is that? Why do you think that is?

Richard McColl (19:10.19)
Most of Europe in the same time zone as Africa, for example. So it's just, you know, it's a few hours. I don't even remember how many hours it is to get down to Egypt from London. It's not far really when you look at it and all of these other things. And I think you're exposed to the travel because of the proximity. Whereas when you take the US, you could, you know, spend a lifetime in the US visiting only the States and Canada.

far. And I guess, and then when you look at it, it's like, okay, we're in the UK, and we're looking to get away from winter. And we've got places, right, you just just keep heading south. And we have a culture of travel. If you look at a Canadian, let's get away from winter. Well, you're looking at an all inclusive maybe in Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic or Mexico. And it's not

It's travel, of course it is, but it's not really adventure because everything's on you know, put on a plate for you. And I think there's a different thing. also the US, for example, has, Colombia is the sphere of influence. You know, we don't need to get into the politics, but it's right there. It's the sphere of influence. And it's a very, it's a very, the very visual imagery of what has happened with Colombia.

you get it far more, let's say, in the headlines than we would in the UK or France or somewhere else. So something bad happens in Colombia, it's reported first up in North America. And so you've got that kind of thing. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (20:50.449)
Right, and I remember, yeah, I think you and I are probably fairly close in age. And I remember, you know, when I was growing up, that was the news. Like we used to sit around and actually watch the news, you know, with the family. Unfortunately, I don't do that anymore. I know that's a big part of your life, but I've just decided to ignore it, the news part. But anyway, but yeah, that was what we saw on the news was it was Colombia was on the news. It seemed like every night, I don't know. It was just kind of what was going

Richard McColl (21:01.836)
Yeah, yeah, I remember that.

Jason Elkins (21:20.059)
on and very so there's a lot of visual imagery there that definitely impacts Americans. But also I want to go back to like you know this is my take anyway what you said makes a lot of sense is you've got proximity for Europeans I'm discussing so if you live in London it's pretty easy to go to all these other places. Also England I'm not gonna say it's small but it's not that big and if you have the desire to go somewhere

Richard McColl (21:23.8)
Mm-hmm.

Richard McColl (21:45.76)
It's tiny!

Jason Elkins (21:49.585)
You know, you know, like if you were in the US and you live in Seattle and you have the urge to go somewhere, you can go to Florida and it feels, you know, it's whatever it feels a little different on some levels. But for the Europeans, I think part of it is there's a mix of different languages in Europe and Africa. And I think somebody from London or.

Richard McColl (21:55.447)
Mm.

Richard McColl (22:10.766)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (22:14.013)
maybe France or Germany for them to go on a trip into another country that speaks a different language is just normal. It's just not that big of a deal. And for Americans, mean, I've had so many conversations with Americans about the language, you know, because they've never been out of the U.S. and say, you should go to Mexico. So there's there's other things besides just language. But it's there's this fear of I won't be able to talk to anybody. I won't be able to communicate.

I'm already uncomfortable leaving my culture because I've spent so much time in the U S so it's just a much higher barrier psychologically, I think for Americans to, travel overseas to a place that they're not going to stay at a resort hotel where everything's taken care of for them. Whereas I feel like the French and the Germans and the Brits and the Danes, and it's just kind of normal to go get on a train for a few months and just travel around whether it's in Europe and they're traveling to different cultures where

Richard McColl (23:07.096)
Hmm.

Jason Elkins (23:13.639)
different languages where they just have to figure things out mostly from a young age. You know, if, if not sooner, at least during that college age period. does that, does that sound right? Cause I haven't lived in, in Europe. So, but that's what I see when I'm in Colombia or many of the places I've been, I see so many Europeans show up and they're so comfortable. They're just like, this is great. They don't like ask questions about, they don't ask that. Like, is it safe to go in this place? Is it safe to do that?

Richard McColl (23:26.048)
It does. Yeah, yeah.

Richard McColl (23:34.382)
yeah. yeah.

Jason Elkins (23:43.283)
They're like, where can we get some cool food or where can we, know, they're, seem much more likely to go look for the adventure where the American, if the average American shows up in the same type of places, they're much more concerned about the safety. They're much more likely to be talking about whether they should be using their cell phones in public or how they should carry their money or how they get home safely from the ATM and the Europeans. just never hear them asking that. Is that your experience or.

Richard McColl (23:46.734)
you

Richard McColl (24:12.278)
Yeah, especially the language thing is obviously the Brits are notoriously bad at learning languages. So I was in a minority, but of course, that's changing now. for example, when I was in that year in Guatemala, one of my colleagues at the private school was from Indiana. And he would ask me, well, what are you studying at university? Literature and languages, French and Spanish and

you know, I've got a little bit of Portuguese in there and so on. And he's like, well, why? I'm like, well, we're sitting here in Guatemala. Yeah, language is Spanish. And of course, although they're not. And there's more than 30 plus indigenous languages, of course, we're not learning those. I said, good, look at this. And he goes, yeah, but I could travel several thousand miles from Indiana in any direction and still speak English.

But again, you're here in Guatemala and he never made any effort at all. It was a bilingual school and all the classes that he was teaching were in English. But I remember him, and this is a true story, I remember him, he would anglicize the surnames of all the Guatemalan children in his class. So Daniel Aguirre was Daniel Aguirre. And it was just like, that's, you you...

I don't know, I don't know what to say about this anymore. It wasn't really worth me having a long conversation about it. It really wasn't worth it. Don't you want to communicate with other people? And he's like, I just don't see the need. I'm at the bilingual school, everybody around me, my flatmates are all from, you know, North America. I'm only down here for a couple of years. But surely you're losing something. He couldn't get it. But then I realized,

You know, on a Saturday, was at TGI Fridays. He wasn't out trying, you know, Guatemalan food. His social life was to go to the gym. And so he basically lived as if he was in a suburb of some Indianapolis as opposed to living in Guatemala. So I don't know. don't know if it's a... I want to try and communicate.

Jason Elkins (26:32.105)
Do know why he was there? Did that conversation come up?

Richard McColl (26:36.622)
I'm sure he was running away from something. I'm sure he's running away from something. Yeah. But this is the deal. Yeah. For example, I went to Egypt and Morocco and so on just when I was living in England, because again, it was so close and what have you. I was just like, and I learned several phrases in Arabic to be able to say and order my breakfast and the people they love it.

Jason Elkins (26:39.177)
There is a stereotype there. That's a whole other conversation we could have about travelers.

Richard McColl (27:04.866)
You know, look at you and I'm ordering scrambled eggs in Arabic. it just, you've got a smile. You are welcome back. And even though I couldn't extend the language, most of them, because they're in the service industry, could speak English, but they were far more accessible to me to discuss further things about the life and politics and so on. come in, have a tea, let's chat.

It's really nice, know, it makes a difference.

Jason Elkins (27:38.313)
It's very, very cool. I, you know, in my past, I had a lot of opportunities to travel with work in the travel business and I would lead groups and I would do all these things, but I really never pushed myself to actually learn the language. I mean, I'd learned some words, but I was only in a place for, you two, three weeks at a time and not consistently going back to the same places. So.

And when I started traveling full time a few years ago, when I came to Colombia, really when I got to Colombia a few years ago, I really had no Spanish other than a few basic words. And as I've learned over the last few years, I recognize, yes, just like you said, they respond to me completely different than when they would have, you know, six or seven years ago when I showed up.

And it's just a much deeper, richer connection. Even though my Spanish is not great, it's hard to have a really deep, profound conversation. But just the way that people approach you, they're more likely to try and speak English, for example. If I'm making an effort to speak Spanish and they know they speak English, they're more likely to work with me and they appreciate, if you're willing to put yourself out there, I'm willing to put myself out there, where I'm sure five, six years ago, I'd meet the same person and they're like,

Richard McColl (28:42.904)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (28:56.009)
You don't speak any Spanish. You're not even trying to speak Spanish. So yeah, I'm just going to give you a little bit to get us through this so I can move on with my life type of thing. But one of the, it's interesting that you mentioned Guatemala in your story because at one point, probably a couple of years ago, my Spanish was getting better and I had an opportunity to visit Guatemala with my son and we went and visited a little hotel on Lake Atitlan and there,

The hotel owner was Japanese guy about my age and he didn't speak any English, but we sat out one day. I'll never forget this. We sat out one day in the little courtyard at his, at his motel and spoke in Spanish. And he told me his story. He's from Nagasaki in Japan. And, you know, the United States and Japan have an interesting relationship that go back. My grandparents and his grandparents.

Richard McColl (29:25.795)
Mm-hmm.

Richard McColl (29:29.379)
Ha!

Richard McColl (29:45.517)
Yeah.

Richard McColl (29:51.918)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (29:53.511)
you know, we're on two different sides of, you know, of World War II. And he was about my age growing up where he grew up. To me, it was, you know, so we had this great conversation about how he came to Guatemala. He sat, he went and grabbed his photo album and showed me his photos. He told me all about his son, who was a little bit older than my son who was visiting with me. And his son was in a military prep school there.

And he was so proud and we had this amazing conversation all in Spanish that so to me it was like here I am in Guatemala having a conversation with a Japanese guy in Spanish and it was an amazing connection that I never would have. I would have had to go to Japan and found some guy that spoke English and it just it was just one of those moments where I was like, man, I'm really, really happy that I'm learning Spanish. And it was just cool to connect with that man. So.

Richard McColl (30:26.328)
Mmm. Mmm.

Richard McColl (30:38.638)
Hmm.

Richard McColl (30:49.283)
And it would never have happened. mean, it would never have happened had you not spoken Spanish, did I say? Yeah.

Jason Elkins (30:51.273)
Yeah, exactly. It would have been limited to You know, here's my key or you know, he gives me the key shows me that it would have been just I would have known nothing about the guy other than he was Asian and he was Maybe managing this motel in Guatemala. That's all I would have got out of it You know, so it is worth it and now that being said because I don't want anybody's system. I think I'm bad-mouthing Americans I'm certainly not I mean there's

Richard McColl (31:03.97)
Mmm.

Let's see.

Richard McColl (31:18.572)
Mm-mm.

Jason Elkins (31:19.081)
great country. very proud to be from the US. And anybody that's listening to this that's in the US that feels like, you know, I'm reluctant to go outside of the country because of whatever I've heard or because I feel like I'm not going to be able to get along. You and I were just discussing the importance of learning language, but don't let that stop you. I guess that's what I'm saying. It's, you know, just because Jason and Richard say, yeah, you need, should learn the language where you're going, but don't let that stop you because it's still better to go.

Richard McColl (31:37.474)
Mm-hmm.

No.

Yeah.

Jason Elkins (31:48.893)
that experience and hopefully be inspired now to learn something.

Richard McColl (31:50.51)
I know and and that's the thing is is over the years to see the increase and positive of citizens of North America coming to Colombia Years back you wouldn't I mean you'd see one or two but they were working for multinationals or some extension of the embassy like USAID or something like that they weren't

But now that I am hired out to go and talk to Americans about the so on and so forth that's going on in Colombia. it's so wonderful to see. And what you would see, for example, my stepmother, who's been down multiple times to Colombia. when she first started coming, people would say, aren't you afraid? Back in whenever it was.

And now it's like, wow, you're going to Colombia. And I think her travel agent asked her about Colombia because she's getting more and more, what would you call it, inquiries about the place. And Colombians just love it when you come here. They love the visitors and most of them have some sort of connection, let's say to the US as well. Maybe there's some family or of course,

They're connected to US culture through television or music and so on. So there's always some common ground as well. And that makes things more accessible too.

Jason Elkins (33:24.179)
I've noticed that with just about everybody I meet and have any sort of conversation with it's where are from? I was very honored the other day, actually, or flattered the other day I was standing in the park and this guy came up to honestly, he came up to he was hungry and he, you know, I to start a conversation with him. I gave him some few coins, but it was interesting because he started the conversation and then he, he said, are you from Spain?

You know, this is in Spanish. He, he, he thought I was from Spain because my Spanish wasn't very good. Not knocking. I'm not knocking the Spanish, but I can tell you there I've, I've had a hard time communicating with people from Spain. So he thought I was from Spain. And when I told him the U S his eyes lit up and he said, wow, your Spanish is great. So I felt pretty good. That's the first time someone thought that I was from another Spanish speaking country, probably since I've started my travels.

Richard McColl (33:55.438)
There you go.

Richard McColl (34:11.816)
Hahaha

Jason Elkins (34:21.501)
But anyway, the point of that is just about everybody I have a conversation with, it's, you know, we quickly get to where are you from? And then they tell me they've got a cousin or brother, sometimes a parent or a child, oftentimes a child, you know, the taxi drivers will have a child that, that lives in Miami or Chicago, or sometimes you ask them where, you know, like, where did they live? And they're like, I don't know.

Richard McColl (34:21.838)
There you go.

Richard McColl (34:47.943)
I don't know. It's up there somewhere.

Jason Elkins (34:48.169)
But it's in the US and and there's a sense of pride is what I pick up on it is there's a sense of pride I have a family member in the US It's either pride or it's a connection, you know with me because somehow they're able to connect it like like you said so that's interesting and

Richard McColl (34:56.718)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Richard McColl (35:06.35)
I just maybe think, sorry, you brought up Florida. So we're off to Florida for a week. I'm taking my kids to Disney World. You know, it's a big deal. My wife this morning talking to my two children and of course they're bilingual. You know, the four year old, bilingual. The nine year old obviously very bilingual. But it's so funny, my wife goes, you know what they speak up there and you know what the language is in Florida. goes.

She goes, it's English, you're both gonna have to talk English. I'm like, technically, but I reckon you could probably speak Spanish everywhere.

Jason Elkins (35:38.481)
trick

I think they'll yeah, I think they would be just fine and Probably probably find a rapist and bend a api's eye in Miami as well. I would think They don't need it, but I they could find it Yeah

Richard McColl (35:50.374)
They don't need that. They don't need that. Well, they eat it, they don't need it. There's enough options out there. But it so funny. I was like, I reckon they could slip into Spanish everywhere.

Jason Elkins (36:04.645)
Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, and it's like even, you know, most recently before I started traveling full time, I was in Arizona, I plenty of opportunities to practice Spanish and learn Spanish that I did not take advantage of. And I get a kick out of when I go back to visit my mom or my son. You know, I like to take my son to the carnicerías, you know, the butcher shop, the Mexican book butcher shops, and we go in there and I'm able to communicate with the people and he just thinks it's so cool.

Richard McColl (36:27.202)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (36:32.745)
He thinks like when he comes to Colombia and visits me, he doesn't he's not impressed that I speak Spanish. But when for some reason when I'm in Arizona and we go into the car, he said, I talked to a guy doing a project for my mom and I speak in Spanish. My son just thinks that that's so cool. So anyway, so I'm working on getting getting him to learn as well. But Richard, I want to make sure that we have a chance to kind of pick up where we left off, kind of on your story, because there's a lot of important stuff there.

Richard McColl (36:33.208)
Yeah.

Richard McColl (36:50.04)
That's cool. That's cool. Excellent.

Jason Elkins (37:02.439)
So you're in Guatemala, working at the school, you've literature, languages, what kind of, what happened next?

Richard McColl (37:13.688)
Well, had to go back to England. I had to go back to England to finish my degree the fourth year and I went back and it wasn't for me. It wasn't a happy year because I missed where I was and I don't put it down to my colleagues, my companions on my in my same course and classes, but most of them bar three of us, I think. So one guy again, close friend went to two close friends went to Argentina and I was in Guatemala. So there you go.

And of course that friendship became closer because we three had had adventures and the rest of them had all gone to the university organized locations in Spain and they all lived together in Alicante and Valencia and wherever else. And they had a great time and of course, but they didn't return speaking Spanish because their lives were with the other students and

Jason Elkins (37:42.142)
Mm-hmm.

Richard McColl (38:10.734)
everything was laid out for them. There was no struggle. There was no real effort to be made. Whereas those of us who came out and I was just a little bit unimpressed with it. But then anyway, I was decided by the time I finished my degree, I've got to leave England for a bit. But I got to make it worthwhile. So I got a flight back to Guatemala to see my friends.

And at the meantime, managed, I didn't really know what I wanted to do, but I'd always liked the idea of journalism. I obviously read a great deal and so on. And I got a, an internship at an English speaking newspaper, English language newspaper in Costa Rica. So I just sort of, ambled my way down central America from Guatemala to Costa Rica. And I was stuck around for about six months at this.

I don't think the newspaper exists anymore. It was called Central America Weekly. And it was in several languages. It was owned by a German immigrant to Costa Rica. And I did this English stuff. And after a few months there, I liked it. But I thought Costa Rica didn't measure up to Guatemala in terms of its culture and in terms of what I wanted from a country. So I bought a flight to Rio.

Jason Elkins (39:15.369)
You

Richard McColl (39:32.206)
And I went to Brazil and then I backpacked around South America for almost a year and a half. Doing odd jobs here and there to make some ends meet before deciding, well, you know, could sort of exist in that fashion, but at the same time, it's probably not the best idea. I managed.

Jason Elkins (39:32.905)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (39:56.841)
Tell me about the language, your experience in Brazil, because I have not been back to Brazil since I've learned Spanish. I mean, I know it's kind of close, but did you full on need to learn Portuguese as well? Had you already learned some or what was that like?

Richard McColl (40:13.102)
I knew some beforehand, but I was able to switch into it. One of my, again, not to blow my own trumpet, I'm not very good at science, like chemistry, biology, physics, and things like that, engineering. I am good at languages. And so that's my thing. And I started reading and you can look at the language and you start to see similarities and pick up the vocabulary. And

Although a lot of people speak Spanish, if you speak fluent Spanish down in Brazil, they're not going to understand you fully either. So you're going to, so I was throwing Spanish phrases with Portuguese vocabulary and then it, and that was fine. And then it slipped into Portuguese. and it really did. Cause I was there for quite some time and, and it slipped into Portuguese. but by the time I'd finished up, in this, in the region,

I had applied to get on a master's course in London and I got on for international journalism because I had had the experience and I did enjoy it. And I got onto that and it was an international one, which was great because everyone, bar two of us were from the UK. Two of us were from the UK and everyone else were working journalists from elsewhere in the world. And so that was really cool. A year of that.

got through that.

Jason Elkins (41:40.669)
Now, but you physically had to be there in class in London? Yeah, okay.

Richard McColl (41:44.278)
yeah. yeah. But it was fun. mean, it was fun because, again, I was alongside the journalists from Peru, journalists from Malawi, journalists from Yemen. As someone I think I now think he works in the regime in China is like the communications office. But they were all we're all in touch, you know, and that was that was fun for for for the way it was, although although that the

the US and Israeli Israeli students sat on one side of the lecture hall and anyone from the Arabic world sat on the other side of the lecture hall. they really when it was international lecturing, boy, the fights that went on. But but I learned a lot. I mean, those of us sort of in the middle kind of like, my God.

Jason Elkins (42:29.202)
wow, yeah, okay.

Richard McColl (42:38.574)
We were trying to talk about something else today, not just the issues in the Middle East. But yeah, it was great fun for that. And then out of that, you see, I did get jobs in London. I did get jobs. I worked for several outlets, media outlets, and was kind of unfulfilled. I realized that had I stuck around, you know, and

and toughed it out. I would have got into the fields that I, you know, wanted to sort of being on a foreign desk as the editor or a correspondent of the international news. But I didn't want to be in London doing that. And that's when I decided to leave after a while. was just like, I want to be in Latin America reporting from here for over there, which is great fun. But again, for the UK media, it's not our sphere. You get the big stories.

and some good investigative stories published there. So it was, had to sort of shift my focus to the U.S. media, which was great as well. I mean, if you're out here long enough, they know who you are and you have a reputation and it's been, I mean, it's been 25 years in Latin America now more or less. so I kind of, I'm kind of known. So, but it's, it's a, it's hard graft, you know, it's hard graft, but why not?

Jason Elkins (43:55.923)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (44:01.673)
So are you still doing the, what role does journalism play in your business, your world right now?

Richard McColl (44:10.036)
I still say it's my job. I still say despite everything, I am the host of another podcast called the Latin News podcast. I'm employed for a company out of London doing that. The Latin News newsletter and newspaper has been around since 1964. It's well known in the circle. So I host that.

bi-weekly and that's, you know, I have to really research because I'm talking to academics and experts. Only a couple of weeks ago, I was talking to the former US ambassador to Brazil who's worked under seven different presidential administrations as an advisor on Latin America. He was like, I need to get my story straight and so on. I need to do it.

Jason Elkins (44:54.867)
So what I hear you saying is you actually have to prepare for those episodes unlike myself who just shows up and counts on the person that I'm speaking to has a great story and we can just have a casual conversation. Well, yeah.

Richard McColl (45:00.414)
hell yeah.

Richard McColl (45:05.706)
You say that we had a call before ahead of time. We had a call ahead of time. You prepared. Don't put yourself down. But yes, and then at the other time, like only the other week, was it last week or the week before, whenever this goes out, there was that huge seizure of cocaine in the Pacific heading out to Australia. And I was immediately called up by the BBC and DWTV to give comments.

on TV. And so I do think of myself first and foremost as a journalist and then, and then it's like an analyst because for various companies, do do due diligence investigations and also analytical reports, monthly analytical reports about what's going on in Colombia or Peru or Venezuela and so on. So I do think of myself first and foremost that, and of course, Colombia Calling podcast is journalism. And that's been going for

11 plus years. then after that, put myself out there. Okay, then I've got the tourism industry through the small hotels in Montbos. But the journalism also tethers into that a bit. You become a brand. And we do well through that because the journalists know who I am. And then they know I've got this place.

It sort of works together as cross marketing. There's a cross pollination of these things. then built on that, the journalism, the hotels, last, well, two years ago, I opened up the small publishing house and we've published three books and people know, people know it's like Richard McCarty's big, big brand, the Colombia Calling and so on. And it works, it works. As I said, I've got six different.

fishing rods waiting for them to come through.

Jason Elkins (47:00.519)
Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious. I'm curious. Cause I heard you say, well, first and foremost, I'm a journalist and then you're also a hotelier and a publisher and a podcaster. And when I asked you to give me your title for marketing of this episode and to introduce you, said Colombia Jack of all trades. And I see some of the all trades part in there, but I'm curious. What's the passion. I think your passion problem about all of it.

Richard McColl (47:07.31)
Mm-hmm.

Richard McColl (47:16.238)
It's a jack of all trades.

Jason Elkins (47:30.825)
but I'm just curious like why you didn't say I'm a publisher, podcaster. I'll tell you it's I'm Colombia. You mentioned Colombia specifically Jack of all trades. So what's behind that?

Richard McColl (47:31.341)
Hmm.

Richard McColl (47:42.286)
Well, I genuinely love this country. Thick and thin. Peaks and troughs, I genuinely love this country and it never fails to surprise me. You could be jaded about some things, but at the same time, what I say to people and how I do it is, okay, politically it's a mess, where else isn't? Let's be honest with that.

But it's like, stand back up onto the balcony and look from a distance at where you are and why you're here and what's going on and the improvements taking place and the people. And I feel that it's my part of my role is not to promote Colombia as much. It's just by loving this country, by understanding it, writing about it, the good and the bad.

I'm doing hopefully a service is like you can weigh them up. These things are happening, but then look at this. Look at what I mean, for example, you're here, you could be anywhere, but you're in Colombia. That's the truth of it. And I love it. even yesterday I was at Expo Artesania. So the huge artesanias folkloric sort of exhibition and

Well, it's huge stands of everything from all over the country. And it's like a geography lesson for the country going over and seeing different indigenous tribes and their wares and different people from all over the country, from Medellin or wherever. And it's a geography country. And you just talk to the people and they're so proud of what they have. then finally, I got to the food section, which is that's my deal is and I was just talking to the lady selling the shredded pork empanadas. And I thought this is

This is just man of the gods. And I posted a photo of them and I've had about 10 different Colombians ask me where I got them. I'm like, you don't know? You don't know where to get these? This is the best. And so I think it's I think it's an acknowledgement of how wonderful it is here.

Jason Elkins (49:44.242)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (49:51.827)
You

Jason Elkins (50:05.607)
I think, yes, I get that. I mean, there's moments when certain cultural differences or things I can get caught up in my head. like, I think the other day when we were on the call or maybe it was someone else I was talking about, but like, if you go to the shopping mall in Colombia, know, Colombians move a lot slower than people, the typical person from the U S or, let's just say me, I won't even say typical, but they, they move slow and, and they.

our big family people. So they tend to walk through the shopping mall with their family shoulder to shoulder. So you've got the family of eight that pretty much goes completely across the whole, the whole walkway in the shopping center and they, they move slow. And if they want to have a conversation, they'll just stop where they are and have a conversation. And, and that dry, you know, sometimes when I'm like, I'm just trying to get from point A to point B and

you know, trying to get around them or if you're on the street, you got to step out into the street to get around them on the sidewalk and then hope you don't get hit by one of the motorcycles. And it can get frustrating. But I so I get to remind myself, OK, these things that are frustrating for me are also what I love about it. I love the fact that they're so family oriented. I love the fact that they take their time and that they converse and they talk about things. And and if they're.

Richard McColl (51:00.718)
Yeah.

Richard McColl (51:17.763)
Yeah.

you

Jason Elkins (51:27.881)
kid wants to stop in the middle of the sidewalk and play with something, they just all stop with them and keep talking while the kid does his thing as opposed to get up off your butt. Let's go. We were in a hurry, whatever, whatever. So it's finding that it's like two sides of the same exact thing. So I can figure, I can either focus on what's frustrating me or I can just say, wow, I really love this. you know, and the food, like, I don't know what you take Colombia.

Think doesn't have a great reputation for food and I'm not gonna say that all of it's good I'm not saying every time I go out need it's like, my gosh, this is amazing a repo or whatever But there's moments What I like about the food is the the human connection around the food. That's the part that good, know So if buying the shredded pork empanadas from the lady at the fair or whatever. I Don't know if those I mean those empanadas you're like

probably tastes great, you're also, I don't know, me anyway, I'm connecting with the person that's preparing it and I'm having conversation or maybe I'm connecting with other people that are standing in line waiting to get it. And it becomes much more of an experience. So like if I had those same empanadas delivered to my house, I'm not sure they would taste as good, but I don't know. What do you think?

Richard McColl (52:38.466)
Mm-hmm.

Richard McColl (52:46.414)
Well, this is it. I was talking to the ladies, were the two ladies at the stand and I went and had one and I came back later and ate further three empanadas. And when I was there, a whole other family came up and they were like, I'm just watching you enjoy these empanadas that we have to have them. And then we started talking. And then I was telling them that I went to the there was a festival of lechona or the, you know, the shredded pork in South Bogota.

Jason Elkins (53:12.518)
yeah, yeah, yeah.

Richard McColl (53:15.276)
South Bogota is not a place where tourists go and so on. I was like, I had to take my family. Yeah, we went down to South Bogota and went and tried Lechona in various places because that's where they had it. And there was one place, there was one place called the Pepper Pig Pork Restaurant. And I was telling the ladies and they were like, you went down there and I was like...

Jason Elkins (53:19.401)
I've stayed there, I know.

Richard McColl (53:40.332)
I couldn't not eat a pepper pig. But I wanted to, and they just loved it. They loved it that I obviously immersed myself in something that was going on and I was local. And I can tell you that I was the tallest person by some distance and the only foreigner down there during that fairing. But when you talked about A to B,

Jason Elkins (53:43.305)
Cut the pic.

Richard McColl (54:08.3)
And this is something that used to affect me a lot, but I now think I now take it on a different level. Whereas I go, well, I want to go from here to the shop to get my lunch and then to get home to eat my lunch or whatever. So it's a busy day, but it's A to C because B is all that experience with the eight family people talking, and walking shoulder to shoulder.

Jason Elkins (54:28.681)
All the stuff

Richard McColl (54:37.056)
And if you go out, for example, near I've lived in like a business area of Bogota lunchtime, what we call them, the officeyistas who just amble back to the office. as I, and I, and I know the stage where I just embrace it. I'm like, look at these guys. Look at them zigzagging. If they walked any slower, they'd fall over. I love it. And so you just sort of embrace these things and

I'm amazed at how fast when I go to the US, how fast people walk and they're in the hurry. I'm like, just factor in more time. Just factor in. I know that to get to my kids' school on a good day, I have to go like tomorrow for example, I have to go out there, it's gonna take 20 to 25 minutes, but I'm going to allow an hour.

Jason Elkins (55:18.579)
Yeah, yeah.

Richard McColl (55:31.726)
just in case. And that's how I think about these things. I'm not gonna try and fit too many things into the day. And it's made my life a great deal more acceptable and calm and I'm less stressed.

Jason Elkins (55:32.041)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (55:38.697)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (55:47.409)
I suspect I have as well it I kind of wish I could go back a few years before I started spending so much time and Just kind of see the differences. But yeah in the morning. I'm just I haven't woken up to an alarm clock in Quite a while. I mean that's it. That's a new thing and it's that doesn't mean I sleep in it just like You know, I'm fortunate. I've got a window. I wake up to parrots you know, the the the Loro's outside the room or sometimes the guacamayas and

Richard McColl (56:03.918)
Ha

Richard McColl (56:14.04)
So cool.

Jason Elkins (56:18.003)
Sun comes up and I get up, I get ready and I walk down to the Panadria and have some coffee and micro saunt. And that's like huge. That's just, that's the way I started my mornings. I did not do that a few years ago. And I love just sitting there, you know, drinking the coffee and watching people go by. You never know what you're going to see here. One, mean, there's the motorcycle with, you know, the full family and you know, you've,

Richard McColl (56:22.968)
Mm-hmm.

Richard McColl (56:39.509)
Richard McColl (56:46.936)
Ha ha.

Jason Elkins (56:47.837)
You've got the wife on the back like the little kid in between and then she's got a big screen television, you know that she's holding and or guys with washing machines on, know, stacked up on their motorcycles or I remember it wasn't too long ago. I was in Montezalas and it was like 11 o'clock at night on a Friday night and I was walking back to my room and this guy walked by me carrying a porcelain toilet on his shoulder.

Richard McColl (56:50.562)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (57:16.681)
Down the tree. I don't know if he was delivering it if you stole I have no idea what the story was But it's just like I see things in Colombia. I'm like, where else would you see that? It's just the stuff that you see I guess it's the land of magical realism, right?

Richard McColl (57:26.53)
Yeah.

Richard McColl (57:33.07)
I guess I knew you were going to bring up the motorcycle. I just knew it. I just knew that was the thing. It's like this morning there was a guy basically transporting a whole carpet down the street while I was waiting for the school bus and the motorcycle. And if when you're up in like a more rural areas, like you've got the mom on the back, two or three children in the middle, the dog, the dog's on there somewhere. And maybe there's a couple of chickens strung over each side.

Jason Elkins (57:37.979)
yeah!

Jason Elkins (57:44.381)
No, yeah.

Jason Elkins (57:59.43)
yeah, yeah.

Richard McColl (58:03.342)
It's a democratization of transport and getting A to B to C with everything. yeah, mean, magical realism is thrown around a lot, but it is. It is that.

Jason Elkins (58:16.615)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (58:22.173)
You just never know what you're gonna see. And when you, well, okay, they do on the first night, or on December 1st, which we're recording this in December of 2024. And on, I guess it's the 30th of November to the 1st of December, that night at midnight, they do the big firework thing, or they do here, Alvarado, see. And.

Richard McColl (58:32.622)
Hmm.

Richard McColl (58:43.844)
Is it called the alborada or something in Medellin? Alborada, yeah.

Jason Elkins (58:48.489)
I was here one year when they did it, but I was staying at a hostel kind of in the valley and I noticed there a lot of fireworks. It was pretty cool. But this last time I had a friend that suggested we go up to this viewpoint and we went up there and we paid 10 mil to go up on top of this building that was under construction. So it had no like rail on it. We went up to the very top floor. There's no rail. And so 10 mil is like $2 and 50 cents.

for both of us to go up to the top of this building with this amazing overlook of the valley. If anybody's ever seen photos of Medellin at night, it's incredible. And then the fireworks were everywhere. The whole city was exploding. It's like nothing I'd ever seen anywhere. I mean, we have fireworks displays back home on the 4th July, but it's usually a fireworks display. And you might have some locals shooting off their small bottle rockets and all that stuff, but here it's like you.

It just feels like every neighborhood must have access to a full on fireworks display. And you could just see it all. I just, you know, at midnight I was just sitting there with tears rolling down my cheeks. And I was like, this is amazing. I've, I've been to 30 plus countries, done some cool stuff. some really cool stuff. And this was one of the coolest things that I'd ever seen. And there were other locals around us and it was just this big thing. And it was a pain in the ass to get there because

Richard McColl (59:49.186)
Yeah. Yeah.

Richard McColl (01:00:07.246)
you

Jason Elkins (01:00:13.053)
The buses were full and the cars and the traffic. took us two hours to get to this building. It took us another hour and a half to get back into town. But my gosh, it was so cool. And like the Colombians are just like, yeah, this is how we live. So that's like, okay.

Richard McColl (01:00:13.646)
Traffic. Yeah, of course.

Richard McColl (01:00:24.46)
Yeah.

Richard McColl (01:00:29.186)
This is it's more of a it's in it's more of a Medellin thing there, Alborra. I don't know what what the history behind it is. But what I love is obviously everybody's involved. Everybody's there looking out for one another. But if you look at it from a US or European perspective, you're like health and safety, health and safety. And, know, you're sitting on.

Jason Elkins (01:00:47.401)
Yeah, cuz cuz you notice I mentioned that this building was under construction didn't have any sort of edge to it whatsoever and I'm pretty sure that all the Columbians are on top of that roof with me didn't even notice

Richard McColl (01:00:51.213)
Yeah.

Richard McColl (01:01:01.928)
hell no. Hell no. And they're probably swinging back, swinging back Aguardiente as well, you know.

Jason Elkins (01:01:07.945)
Yeah, I mean like This is another thing that came up for me shortly after I got here because when I came I'd you know, even my pit my family was like Colombia Colombia And I got here and I quickly figured out that the most dangerous things that I could see anyway were the motorcyclists that Totally ignore the one there's a lot of one ways in Medellin and they just go wherever they want to go So do not if you're crossing one way street, you better look both ways

But then also the holes in the sidewalk because they had the metal cap, the metal lids over the water mains or whatever. And apparently those have some value, so they tend to disappear. So there's a lot of holes in the sidewalk. So I think in my biggest chance of getting hurt here in Colombia is falling into one of those holes or, you know, get stepping out in front of a motorcycle. So anyway.

Richard McColl (01:01:36.544)
always.

Richard McColl (01:01:40.269)
Hmm.

Richard McColl (01:01:44.91)
Mm-hmm.

Richard McColl (01:01:57.866)
Yeah, I'm very aware of motorcycles on the pavement and in the bike lanes and going the wrong way. Not stopping at red lights. Sidewalks. Sidewalk. Yeah. And the manhole covers, like you said, there was a study done and they were traced the ones that were stolen out of Boa Ta. They ended up covering the manholes in Naver.

Jason Elkins (01:02:07.421)
Yeah, on the sidewalk, you said on the pavement, probably on the sidewalks, like when there's traffic, they just come right up on the sidewalk. Yeah. Yeah. It's,

Richard McColl (01:02:27.084)
So a city like five hours south of Bogota had bought the stolen ones. And they said like aqueducto de Bogota, know, the water mains from Bogota, they were a neighbor. So they're trying to make like a reinforced plastic one here, I think, that can't be stolen, but I'm pretty sure you can steal anything.

Jason Elkins (01:02:38.738)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:02:50.931)
And they do some funny things around this topic because the ones that haven't been stolen, they'll create these elaborate systems to lock them down sometimes. And you might see like like locked down with, not quite a padlock, but like bolted down, but the bolts stick up out of the ground. you trip over those. Or when they take the lid, sometimes people will like just put a rock in there. Like that's supposed to keep you from falling into it.

Richard McColl (01:03:06.981)
yeah, it's great to go over in your car. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:03:20.069)
or they'll put sticks, sticks, sticks and stuff sticking out. And you're like, it's, it's, it's just a funny, funny place. But, the locals, the locals, I noticed early on, like they're able to walk down the street and step right over these holes without even looking at them. They're, they're on their phone. They're doing, they're doing, they're having their conversations. Nobody even seems to notice them. They managed to just time their, their walking so they can step right over them where I got to like constantly paying attention still.

Richard McColl (01:03:20.382)
yeah, or a bronze.

Richard McColl (01:03:28.363)
Yeah.

Richard McColl (01:03:36.92)
Hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:03:49.865)
Anyway.

Richard McColl (01:03:50.126)
run down the street on their phone talking in women in high heels, you know.

Jason Elkins (01:03:52.766)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:03:56.947)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, so anyway, it's a pleasure, which we've discussed. let's real quick. want to make sure that anybody that's listening to this has a good idea of what Colombia Calling Podcast is. Cause I think that anybody listening to this would enjoy your show as well. So give us the elevator pitch on that and, just whatever they need to know about your podcast.

Richard McColl (01:04:08.674)
Mm-hmm.

Richard McColl (01:04:17.454)
Thank you very much. Well, we're on all platforms, of course, Colombia Calling. It's been around since 2013. We've had five, almost 550 episodes now. My sidekick, my co-host, Emily, is in fact Emily Hart, journalist. She's based in Medellin and she does the news and on occasion interviews as well. she has it. So there's two of us working on it. She's been on for a few years now and otherwise it was a solo gig with myself.

But the idea is that the podcast is used, well, Colombia is a lens for conversations. And we've had conversations with people in Nepal, we've had conversations with people, I've had someone in Zambia who has connections to Colombia. Everything is in English. We're just trying to give a broader understanding of what is Colombia. We do talk about the politics, we do talk about society, we do talk about the problems.

Still, our favorite, episodes that have been most downloads have always been about politics and what's going on. But we'll talk about NGOs working in trying to sort of, let's say, allay the plague of dengue mosquitoes. We'll talk about boats down rivers and so on. Everything is covered and we're out every week. And it's around 40 minutes long with the news in there. And it's just...

I like the idea that people could sit down, they could either feel that they're listening to it as they're cooking or on their commute or drinking a coffee with us as they are listening or drinking a pint of the black stuff, know, Guinness. If we're laughing away, it's as if we're sitting in a pub and having a conversation. But my favorite people to interview honestly are academics who have their really niche information and they're so happy to share it like the lady.

Jason Elkins (01:05:56.851)
Mm-hmm.

Richard McColl (01:06:11.982)
the doctor of I can't even remember what she's a doctor of but her name Dr. Lena Pinto who's just had a book out who has able to explain for example that the disease leash maniasis, jungle disease that erodes your skin but it's spread in Colombia because of the armed conflict because of soldiers and guerrillas going through areas and moving to other areas they took they ended up taking

Jason Elkins (01:06:34.387)
Go out.

Richard McColl (01:06:41.826)
this as a vector, they were the vectors of this of this disease. And I just think things like that or talking to a volcanologist talking about how many volcanoes there are. I mean, we look out the window and we see a dozen or so. But even the tiniest bump in Colombia is a volcano. But that's what I love about it is we always have something very interesting and and people who are enamored with the country. My biggest

Jason Elkins (01:06:59.368)
Yeah

Richard McColl (01:07:10.826)
market is the US and I do get a lot of people in the Colombian diaspora in the US who listen. In particular, second generation who may not speak so much Spanish, second and third generation and they want to hear about the land of their parents or grandparents. So it's cool. It's cool.

Jason Elkins (01:07:31.593)
We're cool. And I get the sense. I get the sense Richard that like when you're trying to figure, find guests or come up with topics, it's, I can see the look on your face. Other people are listening to this. can't see the look on your face, but I can see that the wheel's going and the excitement. I suspect you just have conversations that you want to have. Right. And you figure that if you're having an, if you're enjoying the conversation, if someone wants to listen, great.

Richard McColl (01:07:46.136)
Yeah

Richard McColl (01:07:53.41)
Pretty much.

Jason Elkins (01:07:58.621)
They'll probably enjoy it as well. But regardless, you're still going to have the conversation. And that's what I do at this show. It's like, I hope somebody is listening. I know somebody is listening. But I wanted to have these conversations regardless of the listenership. And the listenership just continues to go up and up. And I'm just going to continue to do that. And I suspect you're going to do it the same way, don't you?

Richard McColl (01:08:06.188)
Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.

Richard McColl (01:08:14.414)
Mmm.

Richard McColl (01:08:21.644)
Yeah, very much so. And again, there's a lot of feeding into other things. These people then become people who are acquaintances or a bit more, and I can call on them for interviews for other articles. And then people will hear about Momboss, where I have my businesses, and they want to know more about that. And it all goes together. I have listeners in Canada.

who are coming to Colombia, for example, this December, and we're gonna go and have lunch. And I've been taken out for lunch by other listeners. I'll always make some time. You're coming through Bogota, let's have a coffee. I'll always make some time. And it's really great. I've had, I don't know, 10 or 15 coffees this year with listeners who come down to Colombia and stuff. And that for me is...

Jason Elkins (01:09:01.982)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:09:06.184)
It is, isn't it?

Richard McColl (01:09:13.814)
It's really nice and they might not watch it on YouTube. They might just only listen. It's putting a face to the voice and hopefully I'm the same person as who they think I am.

Jason Elkins (01:09:24.689)
Yeah. Well, it's, been great getting to know you. I'm curious, are there anything I forgot to ask, should have asked, or that you want to make sure our listeners know about you or Colombia or anything before we wrap it up?

Richard McColl (01:09:38.712)
Hey, you want to support a publishing house? Just go onto Amazon and look up the first book we published. Both books are works of nonfiction. They're on Amazon. Look up Better Than Cocaine. It's learning to grow coffee and live in Colombia by Barry Max Wills, who's a long-term immigrant to Colombia with his partner. And he used to write copyright for movies and so on. And so he's a skilled writer.

And it's a fantastic book. We've got 27 reviews on Amazon now, all positive. And then there's my book about the history and politics and society of Colombia called Colombia at a Crossroads, which has done well as well up there. So if you want background on that, both are available as e-books and print on demand books. So if you're at a loss for what to buy for Christmas for someone, well, I know this, don't know if this is going out or a new year.

Jason Elkins (01:10:13.417)
Nice.

Jason Elkins (01:10:33.193)
You

Richard McColl (01:10:36.396)
Buy those books, support us, because we've got three books in the making for next year.

Jason Elkins (01:10:41.543)
Let me ask you this, we're going to have a transcript of this conversation. So if people should be able to find that, but are these, if somebody, cause I'm going to have your website link directly in, the show notes as well. So if someone goes to your website, they be able to find this stuff or the. Okay. Yep. Yep. So we'll have that link right there. So very cool. Well, I suspect you and I are going to be collaborating on some projects, the communicating, doing some stuff.

Richard McColl (01:10:46.829)
Yes.

Richard McColl (01:10:58.124)
Yes, columbiacalling.co. Colombia calling.co. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:11:11.259)
at some point here in addition to what we just did. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to share a little bit about Colombia, but most importantly, kind of your story, your journey. And I trust that these conversations inspire people. actually got a message this morning from a guy through my website said, I've been binging on your podcasts. I've been wanting to travel more. My wife is not so much into it. So can you help me figure out, cause I want to do this and I'd like to change things in my life. Let's just put it that way.

Richard McColl (01:11:29.422)
You

Jason Elkins (01:11:40.265)
And that's the hope of this whole show is maybe I even said it in a pilot somewhere like this shows get up off your butt and go do something, right? And make the world feel a little bit smaller. So thanks for helping us do that, Richard. I appreciate you coming on the show.

Richard McColl (01:11:54.968)
Jason, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you.

Jason Elkins (01:11:57.865)
Thanks.